re: 4 year old DD and gender identity

[herethereandeverywhere]

Sorry, have posted here for traffic, not sure where else it should be.

[trying to avoid drip feed, sorry if long]

DD2 is 4 next month. She wants to be a boy. If I ask 'Are you are girl or a boy?" she answers "I'm a girl but I want to be a boy". She selected lots of 'boy' toys for Xmas like fancy dress outfits of male characters. All of this I'm comfortable with. I was very 'ant-pink' with DD1 but as soon as she hit about 2.5 and started mixing with other kids it was Disney princesses and pink sparkles all the way. So DD2 was raised in a fairly universal environment of choose what you want.

Summer last year (just after I'd bought several dresses in the sale in time for holidays) she declared she would no longer wear dresses. This has moved on to any item that looks remotely female. I have replaced her princess knickers with pirate underpants, ditto socks. There is no way she'll wear any of DD's hand me down tops with 'girly' motifs on them. when I take her for new shoes she selects the 'boy' style. I have been fine with this and was pleased she was finding her own identity. She'd been shy-er and quieter than DD1 and I saw this as her coming out of her shell, being her own person.

The issue at the moment is her hair. It's currently past shoulder length and for the last week she has been going nuts when I try to tie it back, screaming 'no ponytail'. She says she wants 'boys hair'. Today she literally screamed the place down for 10 minutes and was sobbing, utterly heartbroken. I'd been hoping she just forgot about the hair thing but it's getting worse.

I really don't want to cut her hair off - it would take so long to grow back. Until now her choices have all been instantly removable (clothes/toys) if she moved on from this, but a short hair cut is something else.

So, I suppose it's AIBU about the hair - but more importantly: is this normal? How far do I let it go? has anyone else experienced similar and what did you do/say? I'm not afraid of having a transgender child but it seems wrong to be expressing what she's doing/saying in those terms when she's not yet 4.

[OhShutUpThomas]

A point worth remembering; children continue behaviour that gets that gets them attention.

4 year olds do not understand sex and gender. She does not understand the implications of 'I want to be a boy.' What she most likely means is 'I want to wear trousers and play with cars and have pirate clothes' or 'my friends at school are boys and they're cool so I think I'll be one too.'

A responsible parent would be telling their child that it's perfectly fine to like all those things, whatever sex, and that girls can do anything boys can do - and not planting the idea that they can just change sex if they fancy it.

Your daughter will ALWAYS be female. ALWAYS.
Please encourage her to embrace her identity, and encourage the ideas that girls CAN have short hair, they CAN wear trousers and pirate clothes, and they can play with whatever bloody toys they want - and STILL be girls.

Don't get swept up in this ridiculous transgender trend.

[Lifeisontheup2]

I was talking about this to a gay female friend and she said that, aged ten, if anyone had asked her if she wanted to be a boy or a girl she would have categorically stated she wanted to be a boy, she always had short hair, never wore dresses and played with the boys.
She's now very happy to be a gay woman and relieved that everyone just accepted her as a girl who was happy looking like, dressing and doing what made her happy.

[MissGintyMarlow]

As everyone says she is not transgender, she's 4, my dd was exactly the same at that age, now - 11 - she is very firm she is a girl. Everything OhshutupThomas says is bang on.

[BlueJug]

Completely normal. I was like that - hated dresses and hair ribbons and dolls. Played with lego and climbed trees. Still a bit "jeans and jumper" as opposed to a dress and lipstick - but that has nothing to do with being a girl/woman.

My DD - now a teen - is the same.

Sounds as if you are taking her choices, ( ie long/short hair), and putting them into a male/female box.

It is you that is saying that if she rejects dresses she has "gender identity issues". She just doesn't like dresses.

[Gatehouse77]

I was exactly the same. Used to give myself boys' names, went to my first Brownies in a cowboy outfit (wasn't allowed to keep my guns and holster though!), wore the boys' uniform at my first school and wore shorts under my tunic at the next.

I have no gender issues, perfectly happy being female. I still don't dress like a girl, envy the easiness of men getting 'dressed up' (hate weddings for the dress code alone!).

[Only1scoop]

Agree OhShutUp

[herethereandeverywhere]

I mentioned the transgender thing in an attempt to pre-empt a host of posters trying to say this issue at hand was my problem with transgender identity, rather than DD being a tomboy and just sounding out her own likes and dislikes (which is what I believe it to be).

So no, I'm not about to apply any labels or seek any counselling or special treatment. I was expecting "this ridiculous transgender trend" as another poster just put it to apply itself to this thread, rather than me thinking I'm part of it. I have obviously expressed this bit badly!

[VashtaNerada]

Agree with the others, go with the flow and let her dress and play how she likes, and make it clear that it's fine for girls or boys to do that. She may grow up to be trans, she may not. No biggie either way.

[OhShutUpThomas]

If I ask 'Are you are girl or a boy?" she answers "I'm a girl but I want to be a boy".

Who's given her the idea that you can change?
The answer to this should be 'You can't be a boy, you're a girl. But being a girl doesn't mean there are things you can't do. Girls can do, and like whatever they want. If you want to have short hair and wear pirate pants, that's totally fine. Girls can do that. But you're still a girl, you always will be.'

[FoxesSitOnBoxes]

We had a bit of this around Christmas. It went something like:
"Mummy, when I'm big I'm going to be a big boy"
"Really DD? Why?"
"So i can play with the boys toys"
"They aren't boys toys DD, big girls can play with those toys too. All the children can play with any toys"
End of conversation.
She now says "mummy those toys are for girls and boys" and points at them.
Being "anti-pink" isn't helpful (in my opinion) little children can see that as being anti-girl and they interpret it as likings 'girly' things as being somehow less good than liking 'boys' things.
We need to concentrate on children not associating cars with boys and cupcakes with girls rather than saying "oh my girl likes boys things"

[OhShutUpThomas]

What are you asking then?

[OhShutUpThomas]

Spot on foxes

[Only1scoop]

If I ask 'are you a girl or a boy'?

Why do you ask your 3 year old daughter that question?

[Seriouslyffs]

Stop asking her stupid questions and cut her hair.

[Only1scoop]

Now I very confused

[herethereandeverywhere]

But how do I stop her getting so emotional and upset about it? So far I have bought her an entirely new set of clothes despite having perfectly serviceable hand me downs and now she also wants to cut her hair off.

Is my only choice to do as she asks? If they really are just clothes and hair and not an expression of gender identity, why should I let her have what she wants?

[honeysucklejasmine]

I don't think OP does want to identify her child as transgender. She just wanted to know, should she take the, to her, big step of cutting her daughters hair short? She was pretty clear that she doesn't care what her daughter wears or plays with. She isn't that other poster who was going on about her four year old "transitioning". Some of you are jumping down her throat a bit. and no doubt mine too, now

OP can you go for a Pixie crop kind of cut? It doesn't need to be a number three all over, surely?

[KathyBeale]

Lots of sensible advice on here. My son is six and for some time he's been saying he is a girl wearing a boy costume. I have always just said that boys and girls can do whatever they want and there are no rules. He loves lots of what would be seen as boy things like superheroes and Star Wars, and he also does ballet and is very vocal about silly people who say boys can't do ballet and girls can't do football. There is a little girl in his class who sounds like your daughter and my son sees her as an ally I think. Since David Bowie died he has been super interested in him and spends a lot of time looking at album covers.

He says: "David Bowie sometimes wears girls' clothes and sometimes wears boys' clothes but he is still a boy."

I also think that children are forced into gender roles very early nowadays and it's massively damaging for everyone. Let your daughter cut her hair and wear whatever she wants to wear. She'll be happier, and you'll be happier.

[CooPie10]

Well then let her have her tantrum or meltdown over her hair. She's 3yo and far too young to be demanding at this age. Or find a hairstyle that's in the middle.

[Only1scoop]

Op
Why do you feel the need to ask her 'are you a girl or a boy'?

As your Op States?

I'm curious

[DingbatsFur]

It's perfectly normal ar this age. Not all kids are the same even siblings. I'd cut her hair into a bob (much less faff) and let her get on with it.
She is not transgender, she is a child.

[nagsandovalballs]

Said this before on other 'transgender' young kid posts.

I'm a rugby player, competitive horse rider, don't do make up, live in boys' clothes (men's superdry etc) but happen to be (mostly) straight and when I need to will stick on a dress and look glam.

As a kid, I looked like a boy, cropped hair, boys' clothes, got chucked out of girls' bathrooms as they thought I was a boy and railed against my mum for not giving me a name that could be shortened to a boy's name. I cried and howled if I was made to wear a dress. I begged,pleaded and tantrummed until my hair was cut short (threatened to get the kitchen scissors and do it myself).

I have turned into a very intelligent (PhD), rather pretty person. Let her do what she wants. She may turn out transgender, she may turn out gay or bisexual, but just let her be. She's probably a tomboy who hates the girly crap foisted on kids of that age.

[LongHairDontCare]

I think she's normal, she just isn't in to the girly stuff! I was always in tracksuit bottoms etc as a kid, rarely in dresses. I also wanted to be a dog at one point, as did my cousin (to the point where his leg was the lead and he refused to move unless he was dragged round the shops like it!) we're quite happy being people now

I think just buy plain stuff and stop talking about boy/girls stuff.

[MissGintyMarlow]

It's totally normal OP for younger children not to want to wear hand-me-downs (annoying and expensive I agree) and express their own identity. I would let her get her hair cut and as far as possible let her choose her own clothes, I went to a lot of charity shops during this phase to keep costs down.It didn't last - well, the wanting to be a boy phase didn't, now she is massively into ballet though she still won't wear her older sister's clothes.

[OhShutUpThomas]

Plenty of women have short hair. It doesn't mean they're transgender.

At the moment, she's 4. If she wants short hair and you'd rather she had long hair, then that's it really isn't it? Or compromise at a bob. If you don't want her to have short hair because your adult judgement tells you that she'll a) get teased or b) regret it, then don't get it cut.

If she said she wanted to be a navvy and get tattoos, would you let her? However upset she got?

Is my only choice to do as she asks?

No. She's 4.