To consider sending my son to a residential weight loss camp against will

[ReallyTired]

My son is fast and lazy. He is 14 years old and completely obnoxious. I love my son, but I hate the fact the only moviation he had is to resist. he does nothing up eat and lie on the sofa. I hope that such a camp will help address why he eats constantly. Maybe it will make him more moviated to make something of his life.

www.morelifecamp.com/dates-pricing/

I am thinking of sending to the camp in the above link. It's very different yo the American fat camps. Even if he puts the weight back on, I think that a residential camp would do him the world of good.

Really

The more you describe your son, the less this seems to be a weight issue to me. Does his weight make him rude? does it make him refuse school?

It feels like you are focussing on his weight as it is an easily defined problem that can be fixed rather than the deeper underlying issues which may be tricker to unravel. Your DS sounds like he is not a happy child right now and I think this weightloss camp is a sticking plaster on a symptom rather than a solution. Get your DS some external support now, see how he gets on, then re-consider if the weightloss camp is the right option.

I can understand why you have fixed on this camp as the answer. You want your DS to be happy and an engaged member of the family, you have decided weight is the problem and this camp will fix that. I don't think anyone disagrees there is a problem but based on what you have posted I am not convinced that weight is the root cause, I just think it is a symptom.

I think the BMI charts are crap!

I'm 5'3" and have always (bar post pregnancy) been about 9 - 9stone 7.

That's as a adult and as a 13/14 year old child. I've always weighed 9 stone.

So, I looked the same, weighed the same - but would have been considered 'obese' as a child, but perfectly healthy once I turned 18. What a load of rubbish!

I also have a child who the BMI calculator has decided is obese. Nothing of her. Does gymnastics, dance, swimming etc etc and looks exactly the same as all the other little girls.

OP - Can you forget the charts and just look at your son objectively? Is he a little bit tubby or would you describe him as very fat?

My BIL was overweight in his teens. My MIL kept the fridge fully stocked with all the things that were making fat. The problem didn't start resolving itself until it dawned on her that actually, it's NOT normal to buy 4 litres of Coke every time you to go the store, and actually water IS fine. He immediately started losing weight, and was then sufficiently encouraged to start looking at his calories, and then he discovered that his relatively slow metabolism worked out quite nicely when it came to bulking up at the gym. He's still a solid guy, but he is fit and strong now.

You say he eats things like bread etc.? Stop buying bread. Stop buying all the foods you would stop buying if you were a size 18 and wanted to be a size 10 by the summer. If you think he is buying shit with his pocket money, then stop giving him cash and pay for things like gym membership instead.

If you think he is depressed, so faffing around blaming the NHS. You can't say "Oh it takes too long" and then forget about it - there are endless solutions available to you. If you can afford to consider 4k for a residential camp, then you can afford to pay for a private therapist once a week for the rest of the year to help him address his issues of low self esteem and potential depression.

The gym once a week won't cut it. He's supposed to be getting at least 1 hour of exercise a day, so make sure it happens, and the gym seems like a good idea, if even it's probably a bit of a pain in the arse getting him there every day.

My son was a similar size a few years ago. He was quite overweight from about 7 - 15, so I can understand your concerns.

Much of your son's behaviour does sound like a typical teen, hours on the sofa, eating, problems at school. Not all teens are like that of course, but it's important to recognise that such behaviour does not automatically indicate that something is "wrong". Also, those hormones can wreak havoc on them, both physically and emotionally.

I'm not sure the camp is the answer. I'm not knocking the camp itself, but I think you mentioned that you could only afford 2 weeks, and I'm not sure that real, life-altering, changes can occur in that time. I also don't see how you can get him there if he doesn't want to go.

Your son's weight is not going to change until HE wants it to. Does he want to change? Does he think it's an issue? What does he say about the idea of the camp? It's encouraging that his Dad is taking him to the gym once a week. Can he go more often? Can you incorporate more exercise into family activities? If you suspect he has depression, but that the GP is not being supportive, can you not access some psychotherapy for him, with the money you would have spent on the camp?

My son lost weight at 15, when he decided he wanted to do something about it, and then he became very focused, and lost it quickly and easily, and it has stayed off for several year (despite the uni lifestyle!). Unfortunately I think you need to step back, take the pressure off, and concentrate on building his self esteem and self confidence, and allow him to come to the point of wanting to address his weight himself.

ReallyTired, the way you describe your son eating large quantities of bread could be an indicator of gluten sensitivity (my son used to demolishes endless amounts); the painful joints might also be as a result of inflammation due to gluten sensitivity, not just being overweight; depression can be another indicator...
Also, if he is gluten sensitive, he wouldn't be absorbing very well important minerals, such as magnesium and zinc, resulting in snappiness and lethargy.

Is he eating enough good fats -like olive oil, animal and fish fats? I remember dd's behaviour being challenging at times, until we realised she wasn't eating enough fats.

Dr David Perlmutter, a neurologist, has written an interesting book about the effect of grain and not enough fat on our brains and the need to feed our gut the right food for our brain: Brain grain. There are a few interviews on youtube, too.

It is normal to be endlessly hungry and occasionally snappy at 14 (I have one too) but depression in young people is always very upsetting and sadly on the rise and not properly addressed.

Depression is a debilitating condition: I do really hope your boy gets better soon.

YY needaninsight
I have a 17 YO DS who is today a healthy weight , but on Wednesday will have a birthday and become clinically underweight!

Your DS is currently only just in the overweight range for BMI. I can almost guarantee you that if you make him go to a weight loss boot camp against his will, his weight will pretty quickly be higher than it is now.

Dramatic yes, but I too was a slightly overweight 14-15 yr old. My DM focused heavily on my weight and made it a big issue when I was quite happy as I was. All that was achieved was I ate more once I had more control over my diet and my weight rocketed. It's only now, 20+ years later that I have the perspective to do something about it and realise I don't have to be fat just because my DM was obsessed with me not being when I actually really wasn't. Sounds twisted I know, but it's hard to understand if you haven't been there.

The only person who can help your DS lose weight is your DS. The more you focus on how he stands out as different to the rest of you, the more it will become his role in the family and more difficult for him to change. The money for the boot camp would be much better spent on counselling to help him get his head together IMO.

SuburbanRhonda Not play fight like play-brawling! More like horseplay, same as he and my DH do sometimes. Sometimes we'll come at a doorway from opposite sides and, goofing around, set shoulders and try to move each other back/out of the way, things like that. No, I'm not pretending to actually throw punches or wrestle him or anything like that, haha!

ReallyTired I hope I'm not offending, but I recognise in your 'voice' that you're at the end of your rope with your son's behaviours and you so much need them to stop that you're sort of grasping at straws for a way to get the behaviours out of your house. I know you love your son, and I know the behaviours are hard to handle; my DS was a school refuser and I was pulling my hair out til a place was found for him in what is, over here in the US, called a "hybrid cyber" programme. He is, technically, doing 9th grade (his first year of high school) in "cyber school" but the cyber school takes place in the computer lab so, instead of having to pick up all of his things and change classes every 50 minutes, he stays in the classroom and there's not so much disruption. He has severe ADHD so the disruption in mainstream school was doing his head in and that's why he was refusing. I won't presume to know why your son is refusing school, or why any of his other behaviours are happening.

Again, this is just one Yank's opinion, from across a lot of water, but one with a son your DS age and who has had some of the same problems... if I were in your shoes the first thing I would do would be to make an appointment with your GP for you and your son to go in, NOT for the express purpose of discussing his weight which will only make your son feel more pathologised. Go in for a physical examination to check all is in order for a 14yo boy, and as part of that I would expect the GP would whip out the BMI chart (lord knows mine waves it at me often enough, no matter how often I say RUGBY PROP and offer to pick up his nurse and wave her around to prove it ). If your DS is over what's expected, he will likely mention it and that will be the time to ask in DS presence about what should DS be eating, etc. I'm only going from what goes on over here, but unless your DS were very, VERY obese (well into the "morbidly obese" range) it would be difficult if not impossible to get a physician to sign off on him going to a "fat camp" before many other measures, from medically monitored diet/exercise programmes to weight-loss medications to intensive outpatient programmes, have been tried and failed.

The next appointment should be with the GP for you. Explain that your DS is showing growing-teen-boy obnoxiousness to an exaggerated degree, it is doing your head in and beginning to affect your relationship with him as well as his relationship with the rest of his family and his peers. I hope he (I shouldn't be saying 'he' all the time, it's just that my GP is a 'he) will have referrals for resources like, for example, parenting classes for you and your DH (where is your DH in all of this, btw? What are his feelings?), 'at-risk' clubs for your DS, or perhaps a family counselling session or two? Regardless of resources, it sounds, dear Tired like you and your son need a small break from each other. Can you visit DPs or friends for a weekend? Can he go for a weekend with DGPs?

I'm sorry I've written you a novel here! Like I said though, I recognise so much of the obnoxious teen behaviours AND the massive astonishing eating from my own experience, I'm just hoping something I'm spitting out helps you.

and to you, and a tuffet for your feet.

I've read through this entire thing, and agree with a lot of people that your son's weight seems to be a symptom of something else. Whether that's depression or something else, for a 14-year-old boy to behave in the way you describe, makes me think something else is going on.

I would say ... I don't agree with 'fat camps'. I think they may be a last resort for morbidly obese young people who WANT to go, but to be made to go is potentially damaging. I went to a camp (not a fat camp, a talent camp for young athletes) and it actually sparked off anorexia - more exercise than I'd done in my life, endless talks on nutrition, not a doughnut in sight. A very different situation and anecdotal, but I can imagine a 'fat camp' being somewhat similar.

I would take your DS to the GP, and insist on getting him some help. Or go yourself. And give your DS a hug - that's my main advice! Weight takes a long time to lose, and it's not something you can solve for overnight. But you can talk to him, hug him, have a laugh with him, now.

You think he is depressed but can't get help for it on the NHS? But you are willing to spend £1000s on a weight loss camp? Why can't you spend some of that money on private counselling for his depression? That could really help with his motivation and address the underlying issues rather than just the outward symptoms.

I entirely agree with what Proginoskes says upthread. You need to look at the growth patterns of your son's closest biological male relatives. Have you ever calculated his projected full adult height?

A 14 year old boy still has 4-5 years of growing ahead of him. My DS was a similar height and weighed 11 stone at 14. He is now 19, still weighs 11 stone and is 6'3". He grew 5" in one year when he was 15. Don't underestimate how astonishing an adolescent boy's growth spurt can be - it's almost as if their body stores up fat reserves in preparation.

It does sound as if you are focussing on his weight as the source of his other issues (which sound like standard teen pain-in-the-arse stuff) perhaps because you feel it is something you can control, as well as something he OUGHT to control. But his body is going through huge changes and will do for some time longer. If you can, concentrate on helping him avoid gaining any more weight until he has stopped growing instead of trying to lose weight right now.

Reallytired: I really do feel for you because it takes a lot before a parent feels compelled to take radical action. I have some thoughts

(1) A private consultation with a teen psychologist will set you back £200 - £250 and may well help more.
(2) All teenagers are miserable, grumpy shitbags who are rude. I'm afraid it's just a phase. That's not helpful but you are not alone in that experience - he's testing boundaries and learning about the world.
(3) Coercing a teenager is like trying to cuddle jelly: messy and it all ends up with long term stains. So he's a bit bigger than normal. I have a child on the lowest percentile, someone has to be at the extremes. But they are EXTREMES OF NORMAL and it may be just that he's still growing.

Seriously make a list of OTHER options before you go down this road, please. :)

Am I being dense or I'd he not massively overweight? As Utter says.

Iguana I'm on the 2nd percentile and not underweight - bear in mind it refers to height as well as weight. I have an unusually tall friend whose anorexia was not picked up as she was "upper" percentile for height and "average" for weight. Whereas I'm 2nd for both, therefore average built short arse.
For teens and adults it's not like babies.

See if you can get him a referral to cahms.

RT - our children don't "have to learn" anything. We have to teach them.

"RT - our children don't "have to learn" anything. We have to teach them."

Really... And if we are failing to get them to learn something we cannot look at engaging extra help. We send our children to school to learn academic knowledge because most parents would utterly suck at home education. Some people have a talent for teaching and engaging reluctant teens.

I think it's unlikely that I will send my son to a fitness camp unless he wants to go. Perhaps a personal trainer is a better answer. Why does he need to lose wieght. It's not just appearance, but he is aleady damaging his ligaments and suffering pain. The physio he saw was blunt that he needs to lose weight or his knees will be wrecked by 30. Ds struggles to walk down stairs because of a tendon issue he was born with, however obesity exasabates the pain.

My son has been better behaved over the past few days. Teenage behaviour can be horrendous. At the moment I fully understand why the upper classes send their kids off to public school.

Ds is so short sighted and does not see that his behaviour now of skipping school or constantly stuffing his face with anything he can get his hand on will cause suffering in the long term. Some teens have the skeleton to carry eleven stone easily. Ds is not one of them. I want him to be able to go up and down stairs and be able to run for a bus.

What are you going to do about the cause of it all though? How can you support him and help him feel happier about life?

Have you also considered addressing how you and your husband are as role models? High sugar bread doesn't need to factor in to anyone's diet...perhaps clear out the crap in your house, and you and everyone else follow a healthy eating lifestyle, be active as a family, show you are interested in it and perhaps he will follow suit. And if there isn't any crap in the house, he won't have access to it. Do not send him to a fat camp. You need to celebrate his body and what it can do...don't focus on fat etc

Poor you. I too have been having some issues with DS 15yr and it's really knocked me. I can imagine you feel pretty down with it all.

Have you spoken to the school - they might have counselling service. (Ours does -state school)

Other than that, I'd make big changes to the kitchen lay-out and visit to GP with emphasis on his mental health rather than his weight.

The physio he saw was blunt that he needs to lose weight or his knees will be wrecked by 30. Ds struggles to walk down stairs because of a tendon issue he was born with, however obesity exasabates the pain.

You do have a real problem then.

I think the personal trainer - would be a better idea especially if they are aware of his tendon issues and can work round or even help the condition. Plus it's more long term which is always the better way to deal with weight and fitness.

Might also be a third party that can talk to him about health and food over a longer time frame- one he might listen to more at this age than his parents.

OP, you sound just like my dad. All he ever does is look at me with disgust and says 'sort yourself out!' 'you do nothing to help yourself' 'you should do x because that's what people do' etc.

Anyway, as so many others have said, the reason for the overeating and lack of exercise has to be addressed first, otherwise fat camp might be torture rather than helpful. Once he's in a state of mind to actually want to change, the fat camp will work and he might even leave it feeling much more confident.

Since you're talking about a two week stay it might be worth getting him off the ground before he goes (if he still goes) with regards to his outlook.

Ask him to write down what he likes about himself, what he doesn't like about himself, and then go through it with him and come up with ways to take some off the 'dislike' list and add more to the 'like' list. Baby steps, of course. Like 'I dislike how big I am' you can't say 'well go to the gym then' try something like asking him which kind of exercise appeals the most, if any. If he says 'none' then get right down to the base and say something like 'which activity which makes you move your body is the most fun?' and go from there.

Since depression makes it hard to find the motivation, get him to create progress charts showing the results of his efforts. For instance, I used a cross trainer to improve my weight and circulation. I nearly died after I used it for just three minutes the first time. I wrote down the time I used it for, the amount of calories burnt, the distance I ran, and the highest speed I attained (all of this is on the display unit of a decent model) and I plotted all this into a graph after a month of daily use. Watching your progress this way is beneficial to mood, confidence, motivation and he just might take off by himself when he starts to feel good.

Don't go buying expensive machines if it's unlikely he'll commit though. There's loads of second hand ones around.

Oh and I forgot to say, if you're not a patient person, then find someone who is who can help your son. Same applies if you guys aren't particularly close. Always easier to talk your problems through with someone else. Maybe the personal trainer idea is a good one?

I went to a funeral today of a young person who suffered from depression. It was the most painful thing I have ever gone through. No matter how much your child is annoying it isn't worth taking a path that might lead to self-loathing and suicide.

Being overweight may lead to health problems, feeling unloved definitely will.
There is nothing that stimulates the appetite so much as feeling empty of love. Sadly it is how much the person feels love and sees that demonstrated to them that makes the difference not the hidden love they cannot imagine because they are being told off all the time.

Better off spending the money getting him assessed by an expert Child Psychologist. There may very well be an underlying mental health problem that makes him appear lazy and obnoxious and if there is then sending him to fat camp will make it worse and be setting the entire family up for a dreadful future. Sometimes things are more complex than a parent wishes they were and then you need to consult with a proper qualified expert.

Deal with the root of the problem and not the symptoms. If there is a diagnosis it could well be fixing that will lead to an improvement in all the other issues. Depression, aspergers, bipolar, being bullied in school, some form of abuse the parents don't know about etc etc there may be any number of things going on.

If your son has something like Aspergers (and it is easy to miss) he will translate every negative comment you make as meaning you don't like/love him and that he is useless and there is no point trying at anything because he will only get it wrong.

It appears that she isn't willing to listen to any of the constructive help on here and is still solely focusing on weight loss...oh maybe I should get him a personal trainer......geez! Get a grip....realise that you are probably 99% of his problem. He probably has massive self esteem issues brought on by you and comfort eats with all the crap you provide in the house!!