To consider sending my son to a residential weight loss camp against will

[ReallyTired]

My son is fast and lazy. He is 14 years old and completely obnoxious. I love my son, but I hate the fact the only moviation he had is to resist. he does nothing up eat and lie on the sofa. I hope that such a camp will help address why he eats constantly. Maybe it will make him more moviated to make something of his life.

www.morelifecamp.com/dates-pricing/

I am thinking of sending to the camp in the above link. It's very different yo the American fat camps. Even if he puts the weight back on, I think that a residential camp would do him the world of good.

Argh.

** you're right that he needs to manage this in the real world, but fat camp might not help with this. They'd help him lose pounds by controlling his environment, which will be no use to him in the real world (and will prob just piss him off!)

The camp I was considering was on a bbc 3 documentary several years ago. I would rather send my son on the more expensive camp with qualified staff. Ie. Staff with degrees in physical education, physiology, nutrition. People who have actually done research into child hood obesity. The camp I am looking at has been designed by a professor at Leeds university. The other camp looks just like a boot camp. I don't want a sadistic boot camp where children are sent on 10 mile hikes.

I wouldn't be sending him away for the whole of his summer holiday. It would be a fortnight. There is even the option I could rent a holiday home near by and he could go as a day camper. I can't afford 5 weeks, but I can afford two weeks.

More life do community day programmes, but not in my area.

RT

you're still coming at this from the POV of controlling his eating, nutrition, fitness. It's not about that. It's an emotional issue.

This isn't the sort of intervention that will help him.

70kg, (167cm tall)

I spotted this as I am a shade taller and am celebrating getting my weight down to 70kg (I am now just in the healthy range).

Is he really that overweight? From your posts I thought you were talking about a morbidly obese child.

Pippa

you're still coming at this from the POV of controlling his eating, nutrition, fitness. It's not about that. It's an emotional issue.

Nutrition and the way the body metabolises food can have a huge effect on emotions. Emotional issues and nutrition are intertwined. Brain function involves physiology and affects bodily function an visa versa.

I think you've already decided ReallyTired.

Don't do the holiday home thing, you might end up with a battle every single morning, and you can hardly carry him in in his PJs these days.

MoreLife camp is brilliant. There's a bbc documentary about it I believe. I've seen children come back from there completely changed in attitude, self-esteem and confidence.

Yes Capsium that's obviously true. But you have to look at the source of the problem and in this case I very much doubt it was a nutritional condition which caused the OP's son to be in this situation.

My mother used to tell me, when I was in the middle my eating disorder, that my weight was affecting my mood and making me irrational, thus I didn't want to eat.

It was possibly the most insulting thing she could have said. And total, complete bullshit to boot.

No offence - what you say is valid, but I really don't think it is at the heart of this young man's issues.

ReallyTired

DS1 is a bit younger 12.5 but struggles with his weight. As well as encouraging sport we have focussed on healthy eating and activity as a family. We go out for walks, bike rides or go swimming. There isn't much unhealthy food in the house and the DC take packed lunches.

What has really struck me underneath the sometimes stroppy and increasingly hormonal exterior is how vulnerable and fragile DS1 actually is. I watched a programme on brain development a couple of weeks ago and one piece of research shows that teenagers are far more self-conscious than adults (i.e. greatly increased stress response when they felt exposed / under scrutiny).

I wonder if you have got into a bit of a negative spiral with your DS where you are focussed on the things that he isn't doing right which makes him feel down which means that he opts out more which frustrates you, and so on...

Maybe you feel he should be doing more to help himself. However, right now he doesn't seem able to do it on his own, so what are you going to do to help him? Can you teach him to cook healthy food, agree healthy snacks and make sure they are available, take him out for a walk or a bike ride, give him a hug and let him know you love him.

I suspect that this camp helps because the families, who have spent lots of money, also buy into the ethos. Rather than spending the money on a camp, I would be tempted to pay for some counselling for your DS now. If he is struggling and depressed then the weight isn't the issue his self-esteem and MH is. If he does have depression then forget the weight and get him help for his feelings and the weight will follow.

OP: when did his voice break, and did this coincide with the overeating and depression? It could be that he's missing the singing and being part of the choir and feeling a bit lost with it all. Has his voice settled yet?

I agree with PPs that the fat camp mightn't be the best for his situation if he is indeed depressed. He might see it as being sent away, and that would have a big impact on his mood.

Katenka's suggestion of a martial art is a good idea, if he is interested. You could perhaps phrase it as helping him have the discipline for bell ringing, etc.

Maybe also sit down with him and discuss portion control, what makes a good snack, and separate things into bags. It's easier to find willpower to stop eating when you don't have a whole packet or bag of food in front of you.

Pippa but blood sugar issues can have a substantial effect on mood, satiety and weight. As an aside, my friend went to the GP regarding her primary school aged DS suddenly being very moody and tearful and he was subsequently diagnosed with diabetes.

Not that this is necessarily the case with OP's son but he could have blood sugar issues. It is worth considering, at the very least.

Thats the camp from "I know what you weighed last summer" it might still be on iPlayer.
-one of the girls on that didn't know she was going to fat camp, she thought it was a normal camp!

The staff all have a "background in psychology or PE" -hmm do you remember the kids who enjoyed PE at school?!

Some of the kids on it were nhs funded, so if you're set on it you could go back to another gp and ask.

I'd be saving my £5000 and take him along to slimming world or something (he could have a treat after eg cinema or bowling. It seems a lot more positive than sending him away for the summer.

This is a documentary about the camp I am looking at.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06vp0ht/i-know-what-you-weighed-last-summer-episode-1

Mumsnet is not a doctor! ;-) Please go to a doctor and get bloodtests before diagnosing with anything. Weight gain can be caused by bloodsugar issues, it can also be caused by thyroid issues and other stuff.

Is there anything you actually like about your fat lazy son, or is all praise saved for your slim athletic son where it "didnt all go wrong"?
A lot of people who are depressed overeat, they are given support to deal with the depression, not sent to fat camp.

There also seems to be a lot of "he needs to learn". When children need to learn something, usually their parents help support and teach them. You wouldnt leave the hot stove or the bleach within reach of your 6yr old and say "well, she has to learn", youd keep them away until you knew she wouldnt hurt herself with them any more. It doesnt seem unreasonable to do the same with food and your son, even if its not what you would prefer and would inconvenience you.

So, he's 5'6" and 11 stone. That is not seriously overweight for a child who still has growing to do. Be careful, I had a mother like you and ended up in and out of hospital for years. At 57 I still have an eating disorder that I need to keep an eye on.

I'd announce that I was concerned about my lifestyle, possibly heading towards type 2 diabetes due to food intake, so need to start a more healthy lifestyle change and that I wanted and needed the family's support.

Then, using only a small amount of the money I'd have spent at fat camp, I'd enrol all of us in at least 3 evening sporty/fitness/martial arts classes and only provide good food at home. Cut down or cut out all the white fluffy carbs, use courgette julienned/spiralised instead of pasta and cauli instead of rice, sweet potatoes instead of white ones. Eat any sandwich fillings with fresh salad instead of bread.

After 3 months of that, I'd review the situation and see if it had worked at all for the whole family.

If I my there was a teensnet I'd imagine there would be a post that read

"my mother hates me, she's trying to send me to fat camp against my will. She thinks I don't realise she compares me to my younger slimmer sibling and she thinks "it's all gone wrong with me" I don't know what to do, I don't want to be fat .I don't want my mother to hate me and feel ashamed of me. I don't want my father to drag me to the gym once a week, I just want their help and support. I know I can loose this weight but when mum buys all this nice food and just leaves it on the kitchen it's so hard to resist and stop. What can I do?

I know I get angry and upset sometimes, but she thinks in lazy and onbnocuoius, I'm not I'm just fed up and confused, I feel like I don't fit in to my own family, that they are all just fed up of me, fed up of tying to help me and just want me gone, just want to send me away "

I don't understand how his weight can be damaging his ligaments. If he didn't grow a single centimetre between now and his 18th birthday, he would suddenly acquire a BMI of 25. I understand he is on the 97th centile, but we're not all supposed to be on the 50th! You've taken him to the doctor and the doctor didn't think it was an issue. Maybe it isn't.

And frankly, I've been 70kg at a shorter height and it didn't damage my ligaments!

I love my son unconditionally. I don't like it when he lies about on the sofa for hours, is rude, refuses to go to school or is mean to his sister. I like my son, but loathe his recent behaviour. I don't like seeing my son in self destruct mode. I am there to be his parent. He does not have to like me.

Some of the children who attended the camp thanked their parents for sending them. Other children were so far gone with their emotional/ pychological issues the weight loss camp did not work. From the documentary it seems pretty common that most of the children don't want to be there.

OP if you speak to your son as you do on here- then that is heartbreaking. And that could be contributing towards his problems.

He does have to like you. Your his Mum.

I don't doubt that you love your son, but have you actually sat down and thought about how he feels? Have you spoken to him? He's 14 not 4 he's probably well aware of how you "loath him" you will say it's his behaviour not him, but at this age for him, his behaviour and him are hand in hand.

Do you worry about the negative impact this could have on what is already a fragile relationship between you both? Have you shared your concerns with him? Have you listened to his point of view on this issue?

You risk damaging his "self conceptual belief of himself" by forcing him to do things and holding such a negative view of him. Hes growing up, his body is changing his voice is changing he's lost and confused and angered by the situation and you want to send him away to sort himself out.

Your risking far more than his weight, surely not would be better to give it a go on mutual terms of understanding.

I think you should do it. The camp looks great. I would let them know about his possible depression though.

I'm with TaraCarter - are you really sure it's a problem ?

Type 2 diabetes stuck my overweight relatives in late 40-50's and well into over weight/obese ranges but ligament problems where they occurred were another decade. If you don't like the information that GP gave you about his weight have you tried another at same practise or another GP practise?

What is his take on his weight or over eating? Is it a symptom of his depression ? Have you mention this camp to him - any idea how he might view it?

If there is a real problem then it's possible the camp would work but I think you'd need at least some level of agreement with you DS - even if it it's well I don't think it will work but I'll attend attitude.

OP maybe it's your posting style...do you speak to your son in the same way you speak about him here? If the answer is yes, I feel for your son.

Some compassion, sympathy and understanding may go a long way. Have you spoken to him about what makes him eat this way, and asked him how he would like to be helped? Possibly you have already tried, but it's certainly not coming across here.

I second pp who said spend some of the 5k on getting him some help with his self esteem before sending him off to camp