To consider sending my son to a residential weight loss camp against will

[ReallyTired]

My son is fast and lazy. He is 14 years old and completely obnoxious. I love my son, but I hate the fact the only moviation he had is to resist. he does nothing up eat and lie on the sofa. I hope that such a camp will help address why he eats constantly. Maybe it will make him more moviated to make something of his life.

www.morelifecamp.com/dates-pricing/

I am thinking of sending to the camp in the above link. It's very different yo the American fat camps. Even if he puts the weight back on, I think that a residential camp would do him the world of good.

Not sure if a 'fat camp' is the way to go. How will you get him there if he doesn't want to go for a start?

How about a different kind of camp that he gets some choice in. All the activity and change of scenery might give him a boost and help him become more motivated.

I wouldn't worry too much about his weight yet.

Oh and there are loads of overweight kids at dds school.

They serve food from 7.30am until 2pm and very little is healthy although it's all 'approved for schools'.

We put dd on packed lunches. Saved a fortune and helped with her weight.

Whatever the potential benefits of the camp, I don't think you've really thought out the "against his will" part. You're going to have to have him onside first.

Have you watched the BBC's I know what you weighed last summer, OP?

Your son reminds me a bit of Katie's mum. They even locked all food away at one point and she still cleverly found way to get junk food from friends, etc.

Sorry your problems with your son

RT, without wanting to sound harsh, you seem to be in a bit of a rut in your own attitude to the problem.

He has to learn this, he must learn that. It's very top down and that is total fuel to the fire with an eating disorder.

Lots of people saying 'this is a good idea' but it's not. Youre focusing on his weight and failing to see his feelings.

Ignore the weight. (yes, really)

Ignore the eating. Treat him like you would a sensitive friend, or someone you had to meet with but didn't know well - be ultra sensitive, polite, don't push him into any behaviours. That will follow once he has his own motivation, and to get that, he needs to know he is loved and accepted for himself.

His behaviour has been poor, but if he senses your despair about his weight, he may feel he has nothing to lose.

You can't help being concerned but you sound like you're blaming him. It's only natural to feel this way but please, please stop focusing on his eating because it is a SYMPTOM and even if it were solved temporarily, like with force feeding a person who was too skinny - it wouldn't solve the cause.

It's like having a go at a child for having a fever.

He's miserable. He is, by the sound of it, extremely depressed.
He needs to speak with someone, perhaps, and if you can't get NHS psychotherapy for a whilee, can you afford to pay for it privately?

It would be a lot less than the fat camp thing and also a real long term useful thing for him - if he would be willing to do it.

Mind you sometimes having a parent (who is obsessed with your weight - sorry but it's got to that point by the sound of it) paying for your therapy means it still won't help.

Ask him what he would like to do, if he had literally free rein - would he want to live apart from you? Would he want to stay?

Try and start by saying 'this is nothing to do with your weight, and I don't care if you are fat. I only care about whether you are alright, and I don't know if I can help, but if I can, in any way at all, please let me know'.

And leave it open. Meanwhile take measures to protect your dd's sweets. But forget all the controlling stuff - he doesn't have to stop eating, and he doesn't have to learn to control his appetite. That's his choice. He knows the consequences. The more you push this agenda, the worse he will get.

ReallyTired that's hard isn't it? You see them developping very unhelppful/unhealthy behaviour that will have some big impact when they are adults. You really want to support them so that they don't develop these behaviours but at the same time, being a teenager, they are totally unreceptive to help from you....

I would secong spending the money you want to spend on the 'fat camp' for him to go and see a child psychologist. He needs some support and will probably need more than the few weeks/months he will spend at the camp.

If he has lost weight, then you ARE doing things right!!
But that's also true that, at some point, it will have to come from him rather than you imposing strict rules.

dc1 did that at some point too (even though nowhere near the level your ds does) and yes it was all psychological.

Sorry that did indeed sound very harsh.

You clearly want to help him. it's getting that across to HIM that is crucial.

btw the living apart thing - I meant in terms of a camp/school/etc for the time being, but I wasn't suggesting it because I think he hates you. Just that he needs someone else, as you say, to give him a reason to eat properly. He is struggling to trust your judgment and your desires for him, right now, so someone else with a diferent level of investment would be the most likely way out for him.

He needs to detach from the family a bit and find his own feet, and then everything could change.

Just a friend, someone he trusts - someone with an attitude he likes and can relate to - like a mentor.

You can't find that for him though.

Please listen to SparkleSoiree - being overweight is depressing. It's the mind set that needs to be changed and supported.

I can't impress on you enough how bad an idea this is ReallyTired.

You think he might be depressed but he has to learn how to control his own behaviour.

You think he might be depressed but he will be able to think logically about the fact that you are sending him away, somewhere he doesn't want to go, where he will be alone while his sister stays at home where he really wants to be.

Have you ever experienced depression? You cannot think rationally, you feel out of control, you feel like you don't matter - that everything around you is helpless and hopeless. Your approach will just make that worse at the moment.

Many people on here have been quite tough with you and you don't seem to have taken anything on board at all. Your son does not need a fat camp right now, he needs mental health support, from his family and a professional, 3WiseWomen (living up to her name) has some great suggestions. He needs to feel like his family love and value him, your posts are dripping with disdain and honestly you sound like you want him or someone else to sort this out for you. You are his mum, it is going to be hard, you may well have to put yourself out. He might not like the gym, he might enjoy something else. Go out for the day as a family, when you are there, go for a walk. Martial Arts, competitive sport, yoga, dance, anything active. You need to start the process for / with him so that he can learn a new set of behaviours and routines and then start to act on those. He is a teenager, he will go for the easiest thing to eat, sandwiches and toast for example - my DD was exactly the same from about 16-18, because frankly it was easier than doing anything else.

He might be overweight but he is still your son, he is still learning, he still needs your help and guidance - not sending away for someone else to deal with.

Join slimming world with him? Have seen teens go with their mum.

When I was a teenager I used to overeat because I was truly terrified of having to leave home, had no idea how to cook for myself and even if I did know a few things, I didn't want to do it.
I knew my mother hated me and didn't want me around, so it made it almost impossible for me to grow up.

I then got upset about my weight and went too far the other way, ending up 6 stone and nearly dead.
It took me years and years to get to a stage where I accepted being alive as a real option and even now I wonder if it was worth it.

I did it nearly all by myself. There was collateral damage, physically - but not mentally. Mentally I was following the path I needed to follow.

You've got to differentiate between how he seems and how he really is inside, and why he is trapped. He wouldn't be like this if he had any choice in the matter. He has no control, and it isn't his fault.

He would be better off going to scout camp.

He needs structure and good role models and plenty of sleep. Depression in teens is really hard to treat as they are so volatile. Teenagers have brains as scatty as toddlers. I think your expectations of him to suddenly "cope in the real world" are unsuitable for a boy his age.

OP you don't sound very understanding at all. You say you think he's depressed, but then in the next breath you talk about how lazy he is and how he just has to get on with it and learn to control his appetite. I think this shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of depression and a complete lack of empathy for your son.

I do commend that fact that you want to help him. I wish my mother had done the same for me; I was a very overweight teen, and still am now. Regularly shouted at by my overweight mother for being overweight, then fed tubs of ice cream when upset about my parents' extremely messy and violent divorce. You need to be supportive and kind, and help him in the right way.

If you have £5k to plough into a camp, I would divert some of that money into getting him private help for his depression, now, instead of waiting for unforthcoming NHS support. Maybe get family therapy, work through his issues with food and self esteem together? I'm sure it would help him for you to get a greater understanding of his feelings.

No one wants to be fat. It quite often involves a cycle of self loathing, and you sound like you are perfectly capable of educating your son in the practicalities of healthy eating and exercise. Get him fast help with the deep seated reasons why he is overeating.

You mentioned eating his sister's sweets; no one does that without feeling absolutely dreadful about themself, he will be carrying so much guilt and that just ends up in a cycle of comfort eating to feel better and more guilt and self loathing.

As someone who was very overweight as a teen, I can understand your struggle. My mum tried to lock up food and it just made me secretive and get food from elsewhere. It destroyed my self esteem which was obviously low anyway. I don't blame my parents - I'm not sure what action could have taken. I do wish they had shown their love and not been embarrassed of my weight. I wish they'd said I was beautiful and put photos of me around the house.

I think the camp could be a good idea as he would benefit from specialist help.

If he is moody, overweight and constantly hungry, perhaps he physiologically has problems managing blood glucose levels? He could be insulin resistant, pre diabetic regarding Type 2. Apparently more children are getting Type 2.

Have you read Michael Mosely on this subject? He did a webchat on here, not so long ago and there is a thread on the 5:2 board for people Ho follow his plan. His book 'The Bood Sugar Diet' is very good.

Now, I'm not suggesting your DS necessarily follows this eating plan but cutting out sugars and simple carbs might help him regarding moodiness and raging hunger.

teenagers can be obnoxious - I think it is to be expected to a large degree.

You could look at focusing on self esteem etc - look at www.thriveprogramme.org and either contact a local consultant, buy the book to work through or contact Rob direct and see what he suggests. It teaches people to change their way of thinking and can work with phobias, anxiety, stress, eating issues etc.

i wouldn't if he doesn't want to
i work in a healthcare setting (not weightloss), but one where people a supposed to be making changes to their behviour

if they don't want to change, all the support in the world doesn't help, and people can be really determined and creative in how they sabotage care plans, whether consciously or subconsciously, even in a tightly monitored inpatient setting.

If you have the money I would instead look at private outpatient therapeutic work of some kind to address depression/self-esteem, probably working with a motivational interviewing model.

Another approach grounded in self esteem, which i have found very helpful indeed. To be fair, i attended a group session and then had some individual support by email, which really made the difference for me. Part of the problem, though, is finding the motivation: id absolutely encourage someone to 'be on his side' and find what would work.

www.eatingless.com

It's very hard to stop teens consuming rubbish without taking away any money they have. I have 3 teenage ds's and any available money they have they will go out with their mates and buy litre bottles of coke or Lucozade, sweets and whole packets of jaffa cakes etc. It's not like I have deprived them of this stuff, I have always had it in the house in moderation but it is almost like they are addicted to it and it is so cheap to buy. I am lucky in that 2 of my boys do quite a bit of sport, the other is naturally very skinny. Op could you encourage him to find a part time job, paper round or something to get him out of the house? I think playstations/ X Box has a lot to answer for. My ds's think socialising is shouting at their mates over playstation. My youngest ds (13)rarely goes out depsite constant encouragement to go swimming, cinema etc. It breaks my heart that this is their life.

And just to add , things can dramatically turn around. My friends ds was a very overweight teenager, but is now 23 and super healthy ( lectures his younger siblings on healthy eating etc), runs miles , goes to the gym etc.

Given its so expensive could you try getting him a personal trainer once a week at the gym? A good one will be able to talk health and nutrition and it would be someone outside the home to talk to.
I don't see a problem with the camp, though do think puberty is a bitch of a time to be dealing with weight because your hormones are wild and your appetite changes so much during that time.

YANBU for considering it. Late at night on a Sunday and grumpy after a shitty weekend with a pissed off teenager you are probably very fed up.

BUT it's a bit Defcon 5 isn't it to send him away for pretty much his entire summer holiday from school to what is in fact fat camp ?

It's one thing if he is so miserable and it actually appeals to him but perhaps a starting point might be a very active holiday or series of them, instead? Can you plan something different for your family holiday this year for example? Much more rewarding to go back to school in September and say he hiked the Rocky mountains, cycled from Lands End to John o Groats for charity than say I spent 5 weeks in fat camp?

pyb.co.uk/courses-teenagers.php
This place is excellent - I've been on adult courses here and they run family weekends too so you could always have a taster as a family and see if he is happy to go solo or with a friend from school. I imagine that there are similar centres in the north of the UK and Scotland also.

www.exodus.co.uk/spain-holidays/family/spanish-pyrenees-activity-week/fed-98324

This is an alternative provider. No dates for 2016 as yet but they do offer shorter stays.
newyoubootcamp.com/teen-boot-camp/

I agree with you to some extent that in the real world he will need to learn portion control etc. But many of us have tendencies to reach for something sweet when we are feeling a bit miserable. As an adult I try not to keep temptation in my way. I can control my environment in that regard. He can't. You could do a lot more to help him to help himself.

Sounds difficult. I imagine he is depressed. Does he have many friends or interests?

It might actually be better sending him on an activity holiday (PGL or similar) which might interest him and there focus will be on exercise rather than food. Could try a short one at Easter and if that goes well send him on a longer one in the summer?

Gym and personal trainer might be a good idea too like someone else suggested above.

I think the answer would be to try and get him excited in life rather than focus on food.

Sending him on a weight loss camp might damage his self esteem and make him resent you.

The bell ringing is a good idea. It's quite physical and it'd take him what, a year to go from complete beginner to ringing for weddings. Maybe a bit less, as ringers tend to let the youngsters grab the wedding slots. But he'd have to commit to weekly practice AND sunday service ringing to reach a certain level of skill first, and then he'd only get pocket money. Even if he spends all his earnings on chocolate it'll probably use up calories on balance, especially if he cycles there on Sundays. He must be reasonably musical so he could make a good ringer.

I'm not sure about fat camp. Just being sent would surely crucify his self esteem. Even if they then repair the damage somewhat at camp, he'll still know his parents did that to him. Also, while you're right that he needs to manage this in the real world but while fat camp might help him lose pounds, I would think they'd do that by controlling his environment. He'll just rebel as soon as he gets out. Other, general camp maybe, or the personal trainer is a good idea if you can convince him to want to do it.