"he fights like a girl"- To feel despair at engrained and pervasive sexism

[Evelight]

yesterday evening, I took DS (10) to his Taek won do class. I was reading a book. The Master's son, same age as mine, had broken his collarbone and couldn't practice, he came and sat next to me, and bored out of his mind, started chatting, what are you reading, what is it etc, a nice kid. At some point I asked him if he knew my DS and enjoyed fighting with him (sthg like that anyway). He answered yes, and added jokily "he sometimes fights like a girl."

I was surprised, because at that particular school, there are several female instructors, one of them a former national gold medallist who is amazing. They literally kick ass. I should have had the presence of mind to retort "well if he fights anything like Miss XX, it would be awesome!"- but of course I only thought of that later, as one does, and only smiled uncomfortably in the moment.

the point being- I witness kids (my kids included) come up all the time with all sorts of these (what I would have hoped are but obviously not) outdated pronouncements still rife with casual sexism (girls suck! boys are gross!) despite the best efforts of PC school programming and education. It's not getting better as they grow older either. Sometimes I argue, sometimes I don't. But really, when are we going to move on from this crap?

Yes, I tend to get chippy when patronised.

The comments I have asked for your opinion on were once seen as totally ok. Thankfully, times have moved on.

You don't think sexism exists because you don't experience it; but are unwilling to believe that others might have experiences different to yours. As I was trying to point out - just like as a white, heterosexual woman you may not have experienced racism or homophobia.

Funny
Quite right too. Why the hell would you promote the solicitor that is going on maternity leave AGAIN.
She will no doubt be taking another year off. Someone has to be there to do the job! Jesus Christ, be realistic. No good promoting someone that is at home on maternity leave. How doe that work. Want your cake and eat it!

Flaming
I prob did contradict myself. Not intentionally. Feel like im answering so many questions. Im sitting here flitting from one to the other

Oh just reading this thread has given me the rage now.

The school nursery class appears to be the worst for this or if sexist bollocks.

Dd came home going on and on about the 'lady dentist'. I pointed out in front of my other kids that she was properly referred to as 'the dentist', as had she been a man no-one would have referred to him as 'the man dentist'. They sniggered, but they got it. Sigh. Next they are doing Rapunzle . I think we may need to re-read Zog.

My apologies. I misread; you do think sexism exists.

Flaming
Trust me, I do grasp it.
My point is this. To find such a saying/comment so offensive such as the one being discussed is in my opinion taking things to the extreme.
I think now days the majority of parents bring their kids up to be respectful of everyone, including the opposite sex. Kids making throw away comments about the opposite sex being weaker/stupid is something some kids do in playground antics. They grow out of all that shit. They probably never use that language every day. But kids always come out with silly comments then the next day forget they have even said it.

Penguins
You pulled your child up for saying "lady dentist"
Poor child must have been bewildered! How sad you did that!

And what the hell is wrong with Rapunzle? Get a grip.
Its people like you that I get so frustrated with.
I bet you are the type that thinks poor old....Bar Bar Black Sheep should be banned.

Flat, are you just here to belittle everyone who disagrees with casual sexism?

Because your behaviour is quite goady.

You see nothing wrong with calling someone a 'lady dentist'?!

Why does a dentist need to have her sex pointed out, but only if she is female?

I admit if I was taking my daughter to have a smear I might tell her we are seeing a 'lady doctor'. Can't see why it would ever be relevant for a dentist.

It's like telling an anecdote about a kid on a bus and making a point of stating their race, like it has any bearing on the story.

Is this a joke.
What if the child had said "man dentist"
Why was it offensive to say lady dentist ? The fact of the matter is the dentist was a lady. If you think that is wrong then I feel for this next generation that basically cannot say anything without people jumping on their backs correcting them for pointing out an obvious fact.
She was a "lady dentist". Is the word lady offensive now.

Felicia
Would you feel the same if the child had said "man dentist"?
Im serious here

The word lady or the word man is not offensive.

To point out a lady dentist, as opposed to just a dentist (which is how male dentists are referred to) is as offensive as talking about 'that black lad on the bus'. Not relevant.

And yes, these tiny statements on their own are nothing. But hearing them all the time, chips away at self esteem.

Do you like being in a room of brokers and being referred to as 'welcome to our panel of brokers, plus our lady broker'.

That's how relevant it is.

YANBU. It's #everydaysexism

Flat- go have a read of "the man who has it all" twitter and facebook.

When sexism is the other way round, suddenly it doesnt look such a small, brush it off, issue.

I'm playing Feminist bingo here. So far we've had

• well I never experienced it!
• It's no big deal
• You're too sensitive if you find this offensive
• There are people dying, don't you have anything more important to worry about!

Micah - it's great isn't it? I showed my DH and he was a bit and didn't quite understand it. But then he wouldn't, he's a man, he's literally never experienced any of the stuff on there!

ah, forgot 'just a joke'

Felicia
Yes im sure my self esteem will go straight down the pan!!
Ive just showed my work colleagues this thread and various posts. Its given them a great lunch time laugh by the way. As one put it. "Are these women the full shilling, because ive never heard such bollocks". The self esteem comment Felicia re your broker example and the comment by the woman who told her daughter off for saying lady dentist caused gasps of laughter and "they sound fucking mental on that MN".
Glad its not just me then

A bit late to the thread but I've been reading this with interest.
DH is a youth sports coach and deals with attitudes like this regularly. 'Throws/runs/ hits like a girl' is pervasive in youth sport and from what I've seen it in our club comes directly from parents and adult players. It pisses him off no end and more than once he's had to speak to adult (men) about their attitude.
It especially annoyed him last season as his co- captain was a girl and one of his best players! She's move up an age group this year, he's not happy..
It got worse 2 years ago when we set up a women's adult side - it went from rather insidious snidely comments about speed and strength to outright blatant sexism on the sidelines which sent half of us into frothing rage (not a great idea to piss off a person wielding a bat or hard ball...), but the odd thing was that many of the younger women - mainly ones in their early twenties would suddenly and deliberately turn into simpering wimps at the first comment which only bloody encouraged it
Fucked me off in the semis when we played like demons but all the talk after the match was about getting us some 'nice tight new kit' this season.
And if we call them on it we're being over sensitive...

"you sound fucking ignorant in your office"

right back atcha Flat.

But I do notice how you skirt round the questions that I pose every single time and never actually give a straight answer.

How would you like to hear 'welcome to our panel of brokers, plus our lady broker'. Oh, it would never happen? THAT'S THE POINT! IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO MEN BECAUSE IT IS INGRAINED INSIDIOUS SEXISM!

As one put it. "Are these women the full shilling, because ive never heard such bollocks". The self esteem comment Felicia re your broker example and the comment by the woman who told her daughter off for saying lady dentist caused gasps of laughter and "they sound fucking mental on that MN"

Do the people you work with take the puss out of mental illness but aren't sexist.

And none of them see an issue with using 'like a girl' as a put down

Sounds like a great bunch of people that don't exist

piss not puss.