"he fights like a girl"- To feel despair at engrained and pervasive sexism

[Evelight]

yesterday evening, I took DS (10) to his Taek won do class. I was reading a book. The Master's son, same age as mine, had broken his collarbone and couldn't practice, he came and sat next to me, and bored out of his mind, started chatting, what are you reading, what is it etc, a nice kid. At some point I asked him if he knew my DS and enjoyed fighting with him (sthg like that anyway). He answered yes, and added jokily "he sometimes fights like a girl."

I was surprised, because at that particular school, there are several female instructors, one of them a former national gold medallist who is amazing. They literally kick ass. I should have had the presence of mind to retort "well if he fights anything like Miss XX, it would be awesome!"- but of course I only thought of that later, as one does, and only smiled uncomfortably in the moment.

the point being- I witness kids (my kids included) come up all the time with all sorts of these (what I would have hoped are but obviously not) outdated pronouncements still rife with casual sexism (girls suck! boys are gross!) despite the best efforts of PC school programming and education. It's not getting better as they grow older either. Sometimes I argue, sometimes I don't. But really, when are we going to move on from this crap?

I'm 46

I found being raped a bit sexist

I've never experienced life in Australia but I am fairly certain it exists

look at this (and I quote) knuckle dragging spoon banger - Roosh V and tell me 'sexism doesn't exist' (google he's all over the news)

My dd, as a preschooler, had short hair.

If she wore a dress, she would be stopped by strangers and asked if she'd been at her sisters clothes. In the swimming pool she'd be challenged over wearing a "girls costume". If in trousers and shirt, id get people commiserating about how she was a "typical boy", and i must have my hands full. Id be grateful when she started school and i didnt have to deal with girls and their bitchyness though.

Flat, in this non sexist utopia of yours, what would happen if you or one of your fenale colleagues turned up for a meeting with no make up or jewellery, flat shoes, and hair simply tied back in a ponytail? Are your female colleagues with short hair and no make up seen differently to those who fit the female stereotype of makeup, heels, hair done, jewellery and accessories. Are there as many women with children in top spots as there are men with children?

Ghosty
Oh come on, Roosh V is an absolute lunatic. He is not the norm. That 'thing' is the extreme.
And Im sorry that terrible thing happened to you

Times have changed, it's better. But it's not gone.

Just because you haven't recognised sexisim doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I own my own company. My husband works for me. At least once a day I have a conversation where people assume he owns the business and I help him out. People assume as a woman I must just do a bit of work for him so I can claim a wage:

It's my company that I set up. Why do people think it's dhs? Because they assume it can't possibly be the other way round.

Flaming
Your last comment is full of 'ifs'
IF it was used 'regularly'
Well lets be honest its not a term I hear everyday. Do you hear it a lot?
Ive never heard it but as Ghosty says, im sure it exists.

Flaming
As you say, there is a bit of truth in the phrase.
If constantly used im sure a boy would get very insecure and question himself.
But as you said ....'if' it was constantly used....IF!
Which it clearly is not constantly used, so why make an issue out of something that is not happening.

Also- I used to have a credit card with my title-Dr- first initial-surname on it.

When dh and i went out, and i paid, every. single. time. the card would be returned to him. Once the mistake was pointed out i usually got an apology with "it says dr, i just assumed..."

I once had an argument with an airline. Apparently i shouldnt use my dr title when booking, as it would be assumed i was male, which would then upset their seating plan and weight distribution.

Tell me again sexism doesnt exist.

"But as you said ....'if' it was constantly used....IF!
Which it clearly is not constantly used, so why make an issue out of something that is not happening."

BUT THE PHRASE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS "HE FIGHTS LIKE A GIRL" WHICH IS CONSTANTLY USED AND THAT IS THE POINT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND.

Crikey, I need a Lemsip now.

Micah
You find when couples go out to dinner the waiter/waitress always
Gives card back to the man. Yes, women do pay for meals. But if you look around you will find its generally the men who pay. Nothing wrong in that. Its totally the norm. As for flying, lets be honest, men are heavier than women its a fact. And for the record, my doctors surgery have mostly women doctors.

There is a picture somewhere on Facebook of a female athlete..sorry I can't remember the name and underneath it says: my coach said I ran like a girl and I said if he tried harder he could too.
I was on a play date and the boys started calling each other girls like a form of insult and I told them off but their mums said it was ok. It's not.

Flaming
Runs like a girl is a figure of speech. Bit like reads like a boy!
Its not something used in everyday language.

Do you know there are people dying in Syria and the rest of the world and you are worrying about something as trivial and pathetic as this.
I need a fekking valium, sod the lemsip.
I really dont know how a lot on here get through the day. You must go out looking for sexism!

Flat, are you QUITE sure you work in the City?

what would happen if you or one of your fenale colleagues turned up for a meeting with no make up or jewellery, flat shoes, and hair simply tied back in a ponytail? Are your female colleagues with short hair and no make up seen differently to those who fit the female stereotype of makeup, heels, hair done, jewellery and accessories

I don't often agree with Flat but 33 years in law in upmarket, non-legal aid private practice specilaising in what used to be a niche sector dominated by men I can tell you what happens at any meeting I have attended dressed exactly as you described other than some very discreet jewellery.

I don't know what you think happens but the meeting will progress same as any other meeting with my participating, talking and being listened to the same as everyone else.

When I was a junior my role was note taking (as was every other junior).As I built up experience and actually knew what I was talking about I contributed actively.

Oh and that cliché about female staff having to deal with distributing coffee or tea, it's usually the case that whichever side is hosting the meeting will do it - bosses and juniors of either sex. It gets done far more quickly if everyone pitches in.

I don't agree with what Flat is saying on this thread but this bollocks about having to primp yourself up to get ahead is just bollocks.

Do you really think business decisions about staff capabilities,promotion are made on the basis of "well she wears good slap" If anything that will result in not being taken seriously. And bear in mind there are plenty of women in senior positions too.

Alltheworld
That is my point exactly. You told them off for calling each other girls
but the other mum didnt.
The other mum probably thought you were going way over the top.
You telling me you thought those boys were out of order? Bloody ridiculous.

Puntastic
Why do you question where I work?

Micah
You find when couples go out to dinner the waiter/waitress always
Gives card back to the man

Not in my experience. The waiter gives the card back to the person who picked up the bill and entered their pin in the machine.

"Run like a girl " " fight like a girl" is derogatory. I do agree with you there is a tendency on MN to look for sexism in everything but in this case it's a fair call.

LassWi
Good post and points.