"he fights like a girl"- To feel despair at engrained and pervasive sexism

[Evelight]

yesterday evening, I took DS (10) to his Taek won do class. I was reading a book. The Master's son, same age as mine, had broken his collarbone and couldn't practice, he came and sat next to me, and bored out of his mind, started chatting, what are you reading, what is it etc, a nice kid. At some point I asked him if he knew my DS and enjoyed fighting with him (sthg like that anyway). He answered yes, and added jokily "he sometimes fights like a girl."

I was surprised, because at that particular school, there are several female instructors, one of them a former national gold medallist who is amazing. They literally kick ass. I should have had the presence of mind to retort "well if he fights anything like Miss XX, it would be awesome!"- but of course I only thought of that later, as one does, and only smiled uncomfortably in the moment.

the point being- I witness kids (my kids included) come up all the time with all sorts of these (what I would have hoped are but obviously not) outdated pronouncements still rife with casual sexism (girls suck! boys are gross!) despite the best efforts of PC school programming and education. It's not getting better as they grow older either. Sometimes I argue, sometimes I don't. But really, when are we going to move on from this crap?

BTW - The PPs above illustrate very well what I mean by naturally vs. forced - they 'do' and demonstrate what 'like a girl' can mean. Maybe we're coming to a time when we're going to be taking some steps forward.

Not if I'm relying my super-speedy social reaction times!!!

Evelight
You are still fuming about the dad saying the mother organises all the play dates
You will find mums are the ones that generally organise them.
Are you in the UK? You sound like you are from the US?

I know moms are the ones who generally organize them! That is what is making me fume! Why? Do moms come equipped with special play-date organizing ability from our wombs? And it bothers me that otherwise educated, kind, open-minded people parrot this with absolutely no reflection or critical thought.

raised in the UK, now in Canada. there was some CBC survey a couple of yrs back which "confirmed what everyone knew to be true- women do most of the household management".

Unless there is a reason that makes a woman's life easier in some other way, the only reason that women do "most of the HH management" is because that's their choice to do it, or because they just 'do it' without question or 'do it', question and complain that they do it .

The obvious alternative is to go it alone and end up doing ALL of the HH management AND everything else too. Far more daunting, etc, etc and probably WHY many women stay and do "most" rather than risk having to do it "all".

Evelight
Its no big deal a woman organising play dates. Lets be honest, I dont think any woman would want the bloke organising them either.
Save your fuming for more important/bad stuff. I think you are going way over the top with all this.

Re Flat claiming it wouldn't make sense to say "fight like a black person or a homosexual":

I'm 59 and when I was growing up it was quite common to hear opinions that black boxers fought differently because they didn't feel pain like white boxers and that their skulls were thicker so they didn't need to protect their heads so much

Also, in the late 1970s after John Currie revolutionised figure skating by bringing in elements from ballet and he won the Olympic Gold for the UK, I remember watching a TV interview when he said in spite of all his success, some people still just said dismissively "Curry skates like a gay"

I remember the Spastics Society too and their collecting boxes at our school.

Maybe in another 40 years time, people will look back and say "when I was young, they used to say someone did xxxx like a woman" and that sexism will be just as outrageous to hear as racism or disablism.

I don't expect that in my lifetime, though.

Well firstly I am in charge of play dates. Dh does all the cooking so play dates after school are arranged by me as dh would be cooking tea. So I would be the one sorting the kids or pick ds from his play date.

Dh takes ds to all the birthday parties that are on weekends though. So we do a similar thing that is not based on my gender.

You can't call it sexist just because one family do things certain people things.

The 'fight like a girl' thing is very annoying. Tbh it would fly in our dojo. Students of all ages would be spoken to about that. We have more female champions than men for a start so it would even make sense.

But that sort of talk would be stamped on immediately. It's not ok.

I get it a lot in work. I work with children in an outdoor adventurous setting. If any of the boys (or some girls & teachers!) make sexist comments I just say, well I'm a girl and I can do it!

I even hate lefty comments but that's for another day

I really hope Flat is not a parent to girls and allowing them to be subject to this kind of comment without challenge.

I also really hope Flat is not a parent to boys and using this type of language to 'encourage' or admonish them.

I challenge this type of this EVERYTHING time I hear it. I will not allow my DDs to be belittled and dismissed as lesser than a boy.

*every time not everything

"Lets be honest, I dont think any woman would want the bloke organising them either. "

What a load of bollocks, Flat.

eh? Why wouldn't any woman want men organising playdates? (god I hate the word playdate). What a crock of shit. Organised lots with men when my child was that age.

The key issue is in in-group out-group psychology. If we identify with one group then we will automatically look for differences from the out-group and similarities to the in-group. The essential problem is that we categorise based on gender at all. We do, and kids notice that and start to pay attention from a very young age.

People have given examples of being disappointed when they overtly buck the trend and still face this, but this is bias at work. Studies show that children misremember information to fit with gender stereotypes. So remembering a picture of a male nurse as being a doctor, and male teacher as being female.

Again, I urge people to read the book 'parenting beyond pink and blue'. It's shocking.

Two out of three of my DD's closest friends have all their playdates arranged by their dads, they are perfectly capable of it.

I agree totally, this sort of insidious sexism needs stamping out. "Overreacting, no sense of humour, it doesn't matter" - all ways of keeping women in their place and limiting their life choices.

Yes, and laughing at 'inept dads' is what society does to keep men in their place imo..

Glad this is getting talked about again. When I had my first dc I happened to have a boy when most of my baby friends had girls. The everyday stereotypes and sexism astounded me. I heard the following:

• he's the first to crawl as he's a boy. No, he's following his mum, who was also early to crawl.
• what do you call him? I call my girl 'darling' or 'sweetheart', can't do that with a boy
• glad I didn't have a boy. I don't like noise and mess
• it's different with girls, you're much closer because you're 'the girls'

All said before my sweet gorgeous baby boy was 2!
Now I have a dd too. This should make me very happy as now I get to colour in and... actually I don't even know.
In fact I'm just overjoyed to have another beautiful baby.

I would be embarrassed if my DH was incapable of arranging a play date. Whilst there are things I do better than him, the only things he absolutely cannot do are get pregnant and breastfeed.

DH organises all the play dates in this family.

I've heard the comment "kick / punch like a girl" several times, my now stock response is along the lines of "well, you could be that good too if you keep practising".

Hanshi (karate) occasionally tells the boys they punch like white belts 😄 Much better analogy & it snaps them into focus.

Totally agree with the insidious sexism. I flinch every time I hear 'fights like a girl' in films. In real life I neraly alway challenge it. Take last week and MIL, who said of the light saber DD7 got for Christmas, TO DD! 'But that's more for boy, isn't it?' I keep it distant and polite from her, but I could not help saying very loudly from the other room 'Oh, for goodness sake!'

I agree with PP who said we seem to have taken a step back. Attitudes were far less sexist when I grew up in the 70s-80s, sadly.

I always, always gently 'correct' DD whne she comes from school spouting some casual sexist comments. I also change the gender of characters when I tell her stories, so she can identify with the hero (hell, who did yo want to be when you read LOTR as a child? I wanted to be Aragorn, not Arwen. Who wouldn't?).

I do agree that some take offence far too easily but on the other hand, yeah it is sexist and factually incorrect too!

There's few things worse in this world that ill informed ignorance, but c'est la vie

I would be embarrassed if my DH was incapable of arranging a play date

I don't think there is any man who is incapable of arranging a play dat (also hate that term but can't think of another). The dynamics of the family is what determines wether it's sexist or not.

Dd made friends at school with a bit, turned out I knew his mother from work. So 'play dates' are arranged so we can meet up too. Dh would much rather stay at home and cook dinner than do this. I would much rather have a coffee with my friend while ds and her dd plays.

As I said dh usually does birthday parties as there are mothers and father he knows well there.

I don't cook at all. It doesn't mean I can't cook. I just don't. So I would see a family where the man doesn't arrange play dates as not being incapable of doing it. The reasons behind why he isn't doing them, determines wether it's sexism or not

Yes it's annoying and should be challenged but people do realise that The Bride, the little girl in Leon and Evelyn Salt ( was watching and laughing at it last night) are fictional, fantasy characters - no matter how many men twice their size that they easily beat up dispatch.

Look up Macy Wood. She has been all over Facebook since October.

Year 8 girl who is world champ wkkc (I think it's wkkc). For an example of what girls in real life fight like.

I have personally seen her taken down men twice her size.