At the pool - other adult behavior

[CousCousDefinitely]

I was at our local leisure centre today. It's a private hotel one, if it makes a difference, so it's users would be a combination of members, hotel guests and you can also pay for a day pass. I'm a member.
It was busy as it is normally on a Saturday afternoon. There were two guys I hadn't seen before in the lanes section (where you can do serious swimming, up one side and down the other). I wanted to do 50 or so lengths but it was tricky as it was me and them in the section and they were doing handstands, diving in (under the no diving sign) and generally getting in the way. I get this with children sometimes but not usually adults in their 30s or 40s.
Im laid back so I just sort of went around them as best I could. They were swimming under me and making me nervous. So after about 20 lengths I gave up.
I went into the steamroom and they arrived in about 10 minutes after and stared at me up and down in a pervy uncomfortable way.
So they it clicked that the pool annoyance was probably on purpose.
I left and was pissed off that it made me felt so uncomfortable.
I was pissed off that I couldn't do anything to stop them staring, that they'd intrrupted my swim and that I couldnt complain to the lifeguard while I was there as it would have been awkward, or as I was leaving as I didn't want to appear racist. The two guys were speaking Arabic to each other which is pretty uncommon in my town.
My dh went to the pool after I got home, for his turn at a bit of child free peace and I described them to him. He came back and said they were in the hot tub (this was 2 hours after me) so they'd probably got a day pass and stayed to piss off more people.
Was I unreasonable to just leave and say nothing and if so, what should I have done or said? Either to them or to the lifeguard. I feel like such a chicken.

I see ghosty. I'll be honest, I've not seen "feminism" used as pushing an agenda for racism before.

well yes Vintage - you see until all these 'Asian' types arrived their was NO rape or child abuse or CSE or organised abuse or domestic violence or murder

it's all been imported - The UK was previously a haven of feminism and women lived without fear!

apparently

Blimey, Ghosty and Vintage desperately need to go and read the Mass Sexual Assaults on NYE threads.

Hurry now, time to educate your naive, deluded, apologist selves....

I agree that Christianity is oppressive towards women as oppressive as Islam is well I am not so sure about that but culture will nearly always override religion and religion will fot around culture

the difference and it is a huge difference is that the Koran is the direct word from god, the bible is not the word of god it has messages from god and other stories and guides on how to live the Koran is far more direct

To play down the issue that there are some muslim men who do not view non muslim women as being worthy of respect this happens, abusing women/girls who are not like us is not only something that is onely done by Muslim men but in the case of Rotherham it very often was

we know that abuse and domestic violence is something that happens within all areas of our society is is a problem everywhere but there is no doubt that in some cultures what is considered dv is different

we do not often have women/girls coming into rape crises centre and dv centres from certain ethnic backgrounds the numbers are very few but they are seen in hospital with broken bones, with horrendous infections often std's and from fgm

we can not fear being labelled as racist, or allowing such abuse to go on and not deal with it. We have and what has happened thousands of young girls have been mutilated and yes I am well aware that it is not an Islamic issue (and funny enough circumcision is not mentioned in the Koran) but their are schools of islam that support fgm there isn't in Christianity or Judaism

ghosty, I've supported the family of one of the Rotherham victims since well before the Jay Report. I've sat with her mother crying because her 13 year old daughter's missing again with a bunch of men in their 30s who are pimping her out and the police don't care despite the fact they know exactly who she's with, where she'll probably be and what is happening to her. In fact their only response is they need to 'accept her relationships' and the odd picture in a local newspaper as the minimum pretence they're actually looking from her. I've supported her parents through false allegations made at the behest of her abusers to get her into care so she was an easier target. I've looked after her terrified little brother and sister who've seen their parents arrested while they were kept at a police station. I've watched them cry because they're scared of their sisters erratic behaviour from all the drugs and booze they've pumped her with. I've listened to her Dad crying down the phone to my husband because his other children have been threatened and he's in the impossible situation of having to choose which of his children to keep safe because the police aren't interested.

But do I support the victim herself? No. Because she's now so damaged that she's a drug addicted street corner prostitute in a city miles away beyond any sort of non-professional support. I suspect next time I hear news of her it will be to be told she's dead.

Oh, and vintage you and your pal have spent this entire thread victim shaming the OP.

I'm not playing it down as much as not playing it UP - because it's one of MANY issues we need to be aware of and consider - for some people it's the only issue and that is as dangerous as NOT considering it an issue

I would never worry about being labelled as racist be reporting facts

In Central Africa FGM is a huge issue - in Christian countries so there must be a school of thought somewhere? In some branches of Judaism women shave their hair off, cover their heads and are segregated from men

Religion is generally a bit shit when it comes to women!

thirtynine thanks for the lovely invite but it sounds a bit scary !

Bill that's very sad - genuinely - and it's brilliant that you have been so supportive. We will never agree I suspect but I respect your experience and actions

I have never ONCE put the OP down though and I'd challenge that - I BELIEVE HER - I totally believe she felt uncomfortable and harassed - I have never said otherwise

Now now Bill you know as well as I do that I have repeatedly told the OP that she should have complained and has a right not to be sexually assaulted. And that I believe her.

Although if you haven't grasped that quite yet it does make it easier to understand the confusion in your other posts.

it's dangerous to focus on one community - funny but Rotherham actually taught us that!

No, actually. Rotherham (which you clearly know fuck all about) taught us that it's dangerous to single out one community for a special pass. To negate their crimes, to ignore their victims, to deny anything is happening because you privilege that group above any other on the basis of their ethnicity/religion.

And that is exactly what you four have been doing on this thread. "Don't look at this! Don't pay attention when someone of this race commits a crime! Look elsewhere! Be distracted! Protecting the good reputation of this race is more important than any abuse".

Wow Bill that is some real dislike for people you have never met

Particularly when I assume we are all on the same side of wanting sexual abusers to be punished regardless of race, color or religion?

Nope that's not actually Bill - the opposite in fact - I don't assume anyone IS or IS NOT an abuser based on their race or religion - that's called being open minded and treating each case as unique and individual

that's really important - otherwise you get bogged down in assumptions

I would never ignore abuse if the alleged abuser had an Asian background - but I wouldn't assume every Asian was an abuser

I am bound by law and duty (and human decency) to report and respond to ALL allegations regardless.

you are right sexual abuse cases have been often reported in connection with the catholic church

yet I have not seen a thread claiming that they do not represent the catholic community that most catholic men are good men

and I do not see claims that they are not real catholic's it is accepted that they are and they used their religion and position to abuse

we are all on the same side of wanting sexual abusers to be punished regardless of race, color or religion

yes - exactly - this

but I haven't seen thread after thread claiming all Catholics are abusers either - or terrorists or anything else

We accept that that is not the case for Catholics - why not for Muslims?

I wonder how many of the ''I'm not a racist but..'' brigade on here have actually read the Quran, or had a conversation with a Muslm about Islam, rather than basing their 'intelligence' on the subject on fear and ignorance.

I married into a devout Muslim family, and nothing could be further from the truth than what I have seen bandied around here about the role of women in Islam. But hey, what do I know.

yes your post was pretty much ignored - crazy that

Much better to believe what you are told than to actually meet real live Muslims though

I'm off to bed - feeling quiet ill - I have enjoyed the rational bit of this thread though

I think we have to just keep in mind we ALL want an end to abuse - that's what unites us x

the point I was making is that there is always a defence for Islam I do not see the same for other religions

I disagree a catholic priest who abuses a child/children is a catholic priest he has used his position and no doubt twisted the religion to gain power

a muslim terrorist is a muslim terrorist, he/she has used their religion to hurt others and cause fear

that they may not be acting in a Christian/Islamic way is irrelevant they believe that are of that faith and their is something in that that allows the religion to be so twisted for so many

and yes I have read the Koran, I have lived in a mulim country, ex is a muslim (lovely guy lovely family) and I have cousins who are muslim

I can still be critical of the religion and I am critical of cultures that are oppressive towards women many of which use islam to support this, I didn't value my freedom until I lived amongst women who didn't have it even though they were all highly educated and choose their husbands and certainly not women who would walk behind their husbands but they didn't have the freedom I had so taken for granted

there have been many reports on catholic priests abusing children and how it was swept under the carpet by the catholic church

I have not seen threads with cries of these men are not real catholics or their actions are not christian

yet I do see this said time and time again in regards to men who are muslim

Probably best to have a quiet word with the lifeguard in the original situation so he or she can monitor the situation. Also if men dive when I'm doing lengths I am most likely to say oy you - get into the other section actually but then I'm old enough that they'd probably be scared of me and obey.

We had one lady at our private health club swimming in full burkini which is fine - we are a tolerant nation (and better than the muslim women all covered having to sit on th edge of the pool on sun loungers because they are not allowed to show their lovely bodies because they are ashamed of what God created for them, were there a God). Slightly inconsistent of the pool authorities though as they don't let anyone else swim with anything but a normal costume on unles you are doing a swimming badge in pyjamas.

Enthusiasm, your posts make sense.

One niggle is that some Christians do believe that the bible is the word of God.

I think Islam is the way it is to some extent because there has not been a renaissance and some of them have a mindset that the British may have had to religion in the 17th century under Oliver Cromwell.