To be flabbergasted by this?

[Cloudhopping]

My dd is in year 5 of a village school, which we are really happy with. As it's small, I know most of the parents at the school. My dd is learning about Islam as part of RE and is today visiting a Mosque as part of this. Some of the parents have not consented to their children going as they don't want their children visiting a mosque. I'm not sure of the exact reasons and realise I am making some assumptions here, but am I being unreasonable to be shocked by this attitude?

My dh is a soldier we live on the quarters and my child will be going to the local school on the garrison which is mainly military children. There is absolutely no way I would permit a visit to a mosque. Nothing to do with religion and I am in no way racist however a group of military children visiting a mosque to me is like a massive red bullseye on a terriosts target. If she was in a civilian or more mixed with civilian children school I would have absolutely no problem with it

Ah, that old chestnut. I'm not racist but....... I would imagine if the terriosts (sic) wanted to bomb the military children they would bomb the school, rather than a mosque with a few military children? Unless your garrison is in ISIS territory then I highly doubt anyone in the local mosque cares.

On our school trip to the mosque nobody was asked to cover their head, there was no side entrance (men and women used same entrance) and we all toured together. The boys/girls had a great time playing in the main prayer hall and shock horror some of the boys were trying on hijabs. No one to my knowledge converted. We got a fantastic halal meal at the end. I hope to go back next year.

Again, I don't get the whole thing about not respecting the rules of another religion ie : head covering etc. No, it may not be to your taste, but it's a small dose of experience for your child and I can't see what the harm is, I really can't.

I wouldn't want my daughter to wear something that is supposed to be symbolic of her 'dressing modestly'. I don't believe in the concept of a female's modesty being determined by a piece of fabric. Nor do i think it is right that modesty even be associated with a prepubescent child.

I find it completely sexist and not a 'small dose of experience' I want my child to endure. Yes, I'd be more than happy for her school to hire a bus and take them off to a mosque for a day. This is because we live in a very white, Christian area. There is a severe lack of diversity unless you travel several miles to the nearest city.

But I'd only approve of her going on such a trip if the boys and girls in her class were treated exactly the same. e.g. all asked to remove shoes before entering; all asked to cover their head before entering. But for her to see only girls being asked to cover their heads, and not feeling as though she has a choice in the matter because it is a 'rule', is a degradation I would never subject her to.

I have always (and will continue to do so) brought my child up to be completely aware of gender stereotypes, sexism, and to speak out when she blatantly sees these things around her. I don't ever want her to think sexism is something to be tolerated or respected, regardless of whether or not religion is involved.

Its a real shame when parents pass their prejudices onto their children. This is an educational visit as part of a broad curriculum learning about history and many religions.

It's also a real shame when parents pass on their religious beliefs to their children. When parents take their children to church, synagogue, mosque, wherever to try and enforce their religion and beliefs on their children and perpetuate it through the generations.

I am not saying I am any better when I tell my son there is no god. At Christmas he was learning all about Jesus, that's fine, he can learn about Jesus as a historical figure. In the same way he can learn about Mohammed, in a historical context. But you can be damn sure when he came home talking about Jesus being the son of god that I corrected him. We had quite a long conversation where he asked me if his teachers were wrong, I told him that I believe they are wrong, but they may well believe they are correct and that he can make up his own mind and that he might change his mind many times throughout his life and that's fine.

What happens on a school visit to a mosque that is so sexist?

Those who have been have said there was no separation etc etc.

It's really sad that parents pass the idea into their children that people who don't think the same as them regarding this are not only wrong, but racist, bigoted and idiots.

Its a real shame when parents pass their prejudices onto their children. This is an educational visit as part of a broad curriculum learning about history and many religions.

It's a real shame when people cannot just leave other peoples choices alone without being judges arseholes.

helmet have you missed or chosen to ignore the posters who said they had to cover their head and females had to use the sister entrance at the side?

I have no problem with parents who allow their children to go but it's somewhere I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my dc go.

I did miss them

I read boffinmum and another post that said there was no separation etc.

in that case, I guess asking the school what exactly will happen on the visit would be a good option (for me.)

Yes maybe the schools should send this information home with the permission slip, could help parents who are undecided to make up their minds.

Is it really necessary for parents to correct their kids when they come home saying their were taught about Jesus and him being the son of God. Surely it's better for kids to learn about God and then they can make their own minds up when they're older. Correcting what they have been taught at school is only going to confuse. There could be many future scenarios where the grown up child will turn to the parents and say "you know what, you were wrong telling me that, I do believe in God. It's fine to be atheist, I don't think it's right to try and pass those beliefs on to your kids.

Our Mosque was in East London, pretty Muslim area and certainly no separate entrance for the school trip, and I don't think young girls (they were Y1) needed to head cover, although adult helpers did. Not really sure what the issue with head covering would be anyway. Lots of temples etc. when you are on holiday require arms to have some covering and won't accept shorts etc. People do it without question as it they want to go and see a historical site, but need to follow that site's rules. What's the biggie? I do hope some of these kids when they grow up will go on holiday and do these kind of things and not think, "OOOh my Mum was funny about me going in a Mosque where I needed to cover my head, so I'm not going to visit this rather impressive and beautiful temple."

I actually wouldn't mind my children seeing women being treated as inferior in a mosque or similar as it shows the negative aspect of religion in general and specifically Islam ( although treating females differently is NOT pure Islam it's an interpretation of it). I would talk to my children about it so they understood how unacceptable it was rather than have them avoid it completely. There are some positive aspects to Islam I would like them to experience as well such as Community and Charity.
My DD is already horrified that certain girls at school have to cover their heads etc and we have spoken about the onus should be on men not to look rather than women to cover up. We have also spoken about other religions and how it's the people interpreting it that cause problems rather than the religion itself

merry I wouldnt have a problem
With the head covering if it applied to boys as well as girls.

Dawn, so schools should tell children that Jesus is the son of god but parents should not say anything?
How absurd.

Hippy, in many religious places all over the world, it is only the women who cover their heads and legs/ shoulders etc. People flock to these places as tourist attractions.

Not really sure what the issue with head covering would be anyway

Because men dont have to do it i.e another way women are thought of differently to men, inferior.

Lots of temples etc. when you are on holiday require arms to have some covering and won't accept shorts etc. People do it without question as it they want to go and see a historical site

None of which I have any inclination to visit, dont assume everyone likes to visit the same places that others do. Youngest 2 are too young to choose where they want to go on holiday but if my 22 year old wanted to visit a temple on holiday Im sure he would, funnily enough though his holidays dont tend to involve temples, not many of them in Ibiza and Cancun.

Our Mosque was in East London, pretty Muslim area and certainly no separate entrance for the school trip, and I don't think young girls (they were Y1) needed to head cover, although adult helpers did. Not really sure what the issue with head covering would be anyway. Lots of temples etc. when you are on holiday require arms to have some covering and won't accept shorts etc. People do it without question as it they want to go and see a historical site, but need to follow that site's rules. What's the biggie? I do hope some of these kids when they grow up will go on holiday and do these kind of things and not think, "OOOh my Mum was funny about me going in a Mosque where I needed to cover my head, so I'm not going to visit this rather impressive and beautiful temple."

You don't mention whether the adult helpers asked to cover their heads were male or female. Nor do you mention a specific sex in the rest of your post. You say 'kids' when actually you mean females, don't you?

I would never subject my daughter to sexist treatment disguised as 'religion'. I would not allow her to cover her head 'in modesty' (ffs) when entering a building when the boys in her class do not have to.

Even if she was not asked to do this due to her being a child, I would not be happy for her to witness her teacher having to cover her head purely because she was female.

Either everyone has to do it, regardless of sex, or nobody does.

Tradition, culture, religion - all crappy excuses for treating females as an inferior sex.

I'd actually be quite proud if, when my daughter grows up, she chooses not to visit a place that holds such disgustingly sexist entry requirements. There are plenty of impressive and beautiful holiday destinations she can chose to venture to that will not treat her differently because of what's between her legs.

A similar thing happened in my daughters' C of E primary school, some years ago now. A group of parents did the sane thing, saying they did not want their children visiting a "working" mosque. This was way before recent events etc. I could never understand it, as they were not withdrawn from visits to other places of worship

That would only be absurd to an atheist. From the poor child's point of view he's going to start questioning everything he learns. He'll be like "hmm I wonder if that's true, better check with my mum first." Toatally crazy. Generations of kids have grown up absolutely fine learning about God, without interference from mum or dad. When they get older they can either think "what a load of crap" or else they'll actually believe...... You don't believe, it's arrogant to expect your child to have the same beliefs.

That's funny dawn

merry I don't need a lesson in culture, if as adults my children choose to visit anywhere that treats them unfairly based upon their sex that's their choice.

As a parent my role is to guide them and teach them and I firmly believe that visiting a mosque would undermine many of the values I am trying to instil in my boys.

A mosque visit can be informative and interesting - I always enjoy them. And I cover my head and don't feel any concern about that at all. I recall that until 1942, in the UK, women attending Church of England services were required to cover their heads by wearing a hat. Bias doesn't just go one way though - trying to get my Muslim pupils to go to a Buddhist centre led to significant displays of prejudice!

I think that's one of the key issues for me actually timely many or most religions started off with sexist ideals but have moved on from this, from what I can see Islam or some forms of it show no changes for modern culture.

I think its important to investigate as fully as possible things you disagree with. That's why its good to read the guardian and mirror in addition to the daily mail and telegraph (or vice versa).

If you read on mumsnet all the angst about affairs and the pressures of working mothers you can understand why some cultures try and keep men and women separate but of course you also read about women (in particular) being trapped at home in terrible relationships and the importance of having women participate in all spheres of life

My mum wouldn't let me get henna tattoos on my hands or wear a sari when we were learning about Hinduism and Diwali, heaven forbid I learnt about something other than Christianity! Didn't let me visit a Mosque in secondary school either. I won't be keeping my daughter from any school visits to places of worship no matter what religion but I won't let her do Christian-focussed religious ed at school as they teach it like fact rather than "this is what some people believe".