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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be flabbergasted by this?

300 replies

Cloudhopping · 03/02/2016 12:59

My dd is in year 5 of a village school, which we are really happy with. As it's small, I know most of the parents at the school. My dd is learning about Islam as part of RE and is today visiting a Mosque as part of this. Some of the parents have not consented to their children going as they don't want their children visiting a mosque. I'm not sure of the exact reasons and realise I am making some assumptions here, but am I being unreasonable to be shocked by this attitude?

OP posts:
Marzipanface · 03/02/2016 13:53

Isn't visiting a mosque a perfectly good time to display cultural and religious attitudes towards gender. It's an educative exercise.

'Girls, cover your heads and go in a different entrance'

'Why?'

Lots of interesting questions.

I would let my daughter go.

Jackie0 · 03/02/2016 13:53

Yabu and naïve

nancy75 · 03/02/2016 13:53

Is it important to respect others beliefs? All of them? Aren't there beliefs in most cultures or religions that we should challenge instead of respecting?

AppleSetsSail · 03/02/2016 13:54

'Girls, cover your heads and go in a different entrance'

'Why?'

Lots of interesting questions.

Excellent point.

LittleLionMansMummy · 03/02/2016 13:56

My son is an experiential learner Laguna so theory does not have the same impact as a hands on visit, seeing it first hand. He also attends a predominantly white school in a village location so his exposure to different beliefs via socialisation is currently a bit limited.

expatinscotland · 03/02/2016 13:56

Another one of these, 'Look at me, I'm SO open-minded! I am so flabbergasted everyone isn't just like me, never mind I don't even know them or their reasons' threads. YABU. Some people don't want their children having anything at all to do with organised religion, any religion. Or they may have other reasons. You lead a sheltered life if this is all you have to be 'flabbergasted' and shocked about.

LumelaMme · 03/02/2016 13:57

How is a visit to a mosque all of a sudden equated to teaching children that one sex is superior to another?
Because if the girls are told to cover up, and the boys aren't, and the girls are taken in through a side door, and the boys aren't, the children are going to come to a few conclusions, I would have thought.

FWIW, I'd let my DC go. I'd rely on my DDs to come back severely narked by any side-door treatment.

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2016 13:57

Marzipanface Wed 03-Feb-16 13:53:12
Isn't visiting a mosque a perfectly good time to display cultural and religious attitudes towards gender. It's an educative exercise.

'Girls, cover your heads and go in a different entrance'

'Why?'

Lots of interesting questions.

Quite.

LagunaBubbles · 03/02/2016 13:57

Marzipan I can understand that but for me I dont need to expose my sons to this, as I said they dont need to actually see something to understand it. My sons know Muslim women are treated different to men and this is very wrong.

LaurieFairyCake · 03/02/2016 13:58

Yes, I'm quite often shocked by the stupidity and ignorance of people. There won't be and justifiable reason.

CottonFrock · 03/02/2016 14:00

I wouldn't want to stop my dc having experience of other cultures / religions but I would want a 'class discussion' on the 'differences' to be part of the educational element of it. ie I wouldn't stop my dd going due to the side door issue but I would expect her teacher to bring it up as a discussion point.

This strikes me as perfectly reasonable. I'm not going to prevent my son (still a pre-schooler, so this is a future event) reading Enid Blyton because of her appalling racism, sexism and snobbery - and nor do I think the texts should be altered - but there are quite a few conversations we'll be having around the experience.

I do agree about children being capable of grasping nuance (I was myself a sceptical WC non-British child reader of EB), but I do think there's a problem for young children when authority figures such as teachers appear to endorse sexual or other double standards. But I hold that against it being desirable for today's children to grow up not 'othering' one another.

LagunaBubbles · 03/02/2016 14:01

littlelion I get that and its up to each parent isnt it, I have not criticised any parent here for choosing to allow their DC on a trip to a mosque and yet there are some people here for whatever reason who have been very quick to label people who choose not to as racist bigots eh!

LovelyFriend · 03/02/2016 14:03

I'm an atheist and a feminist. I think all religion is frankly bonkers, but of course realise its cultural and historical significance and how having an understanding of religion is vital to understanding much of what is going on in the world, and also what has happened historically.

I'm especially very uncomfortable with the way many religions treat women differently to men. Veiling is not just an Islamic thing. Many nun's are veiled while monks aren't. Historically many cultures used the veil to classify and control women. www.suppressedhistories.net/articles/veil.html

Do I want to withdrawn my children from a visit to a mosque? No of course not - I want to foster every opportunity they have to learn about the world, to question it, as they grow and develop their own understanding of it.

AppleSetsSail · 03/02/2016 14:03

Marzipan I can understand that but for me I dont need to expose my sons to this, as I said they dont need to actually see something to understand it. My sons know Muslim women are treated different to men and this is very wrong.

You can't avoid 'exposure' to Islam any more than you can Christianity. All you're doing is fomenting ignorance.

LagunaBubbles · 03/02/2016 14:04

How is a visit to a mosque all of a sudden equated to teaching children that one sex is superior to another?

Because its a place of worship for a religion that believes this and right from the point of entrance this can be seen in action.

AppleSetsSail · 03/02/2016 14:05

Because its a place of worship for a religion that believes this and right from the point of entrance this can be seen in action.

A place of worship of which you are not a member.

Badders123 · 03/02/2016 14:06

RE is an academic subject.
Would these parents stop their children doing a curriculum related visit for science or English?
Idiots.

Sonnet · 03/02/2016 14:06

I really don't see the problem and have happily let my children visit mosques. Mountain out of a molehill comes to mind

LagunaBubbles · 03/02/2016 14:06

You can't avoid 'exposure' to Islam any more than you can Christianity. All you're doing is fomenting ignorance

I dont believe in any religion, all religion causes more harm in the world than good. Of course I cant avoid my children being exposed to Islam - but they dont need to witness boys and girls being treated differently to understand its wrong. You dont know me or my children, they are anything but ignorant.

Sonnet · 03/02/2016 14:09

Do I want to withdrawn my children from a visit to a mosque? No of course not - I want to foster every opportunity they have to learn about the world, to question it, as they grow and develop their own understanding of it

this - put more eloquently than I ever could!

LagunaBubbles · 03/02/2016 14:10

A place of worship of which you are not a member

Doesnt make a difference to me, they would still be visiting it. As Ive said they dont need to do that to be taught anything.

JuneFromBethesda · 03/02/2016 14:11

My childrens' school organises a trip to a mosque in Year 2. Last year it was my elder daughter's turn. I hadn't seen the email about the trip (and didn't know where they were going) when I picked up my daughter from a playdate. The mum said 'have you SEEN where Year 2 are going on an outing??' in a tone of horror and outrage. I had a quick look at the email (on my phone) and saw that it was a mosque, then stood there for a minute with my mind racing, trying to work out why she was so aghast - had I missed something?

Her reason was 'well, we're Christian - our children won't go anywhere like that'. Well, I'm an atheist but I think it's important for my children to experience other cultures and other ways of living. I think it's VITAL in the current age that they see that Muslims are not all about bombing and killing people - that the majority of Muslims are simply getting on with life like everybody else. No, I don't agree with everything they believe in, but then actually I don't agree with any religion, yet I still let my children go on school trips to the local church, because it's all part of a wider education about how other people live, and other elements of our community.

Several parents from my daughter's year refused to let their children go. My childminder, whose son is in the same year, was one of them 'they're all under police surveillance at that mosque!' she told me. I laughed and said in that case the children couldn't be any safer.

As it was they had a good visit, were treated very kindly by the people who showed them round, and generally enjoyed the day out.

AppleSetsSail · 03/02/2016 14:16

I dont believe in any religion, all religion causes more harm in the world than good. Of course I cant avoid my children being exposed to Islam - but they dont need to witness boys and girls being treated differently to understand its wrong. You dont know me or my children, they are anything but ignorant.

OK, what do you do when you're on holiday in some ancient city having an historic mosque or cathedral or museum (housing art that is inevitably heavy with religious context)?

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2016 14:16

I think the best way to understand and appreciate prejudice is to be confronted with it in a very clear way. You can understand the principles of it, but until you get up close and personal with it, I don't think you understand it in the same way.

I understood racism. Or I thought I did.

I am white and British. It wasn't until I travelled and experienced what that actually meant and how in some places that being white and British was not the privileged group that it started to make even more sense and shocked me, to think about how that would make me feel if I had to deal with it every day.

It was an experience that make me think about it, in a way that being told about it, couldn't match.

Also, I have had preconceptions about certain places and certain things that have been totally shattered and changed when I have travelled somewhere. Things that have made me question and challenge what I think about being white and British and how history has taught us that we were the 'good guys' and the reality might not be quite as black and white as that.

I think that you need to be exposed to different cultures - warts and all - to understand them, and why they have those values, even if you disagree with them. It helps to experience why others do live like that, and why they might disagree with some of those principles but still accept them enough to live by them.

Why do Islamic women accept entering through a side entrance? Is it because they are not aware it is sexist, or they do not have the ability to challenge is, or because Islam is still offering them something that an outsider might miss somehow? Its not as simple as saying, its a 'sexist religion' therefore it is a 'bad religion'.

You don't change something, by completely disengaging from it. You can only bring about change by a mutual exchange of views and showing/offering an alternative approach.

LagunaBubbles · 03/02/2016 14:16

I think it's VITAL in the current age that they see that Muslims are not all about bombing and killing people - that the majority of Muslims are simply getting on with life like everybody else

My oldest 2 are well aware of this because I am capable of teaching them this, all without a need for a visit to a mosque. I certainly wouldnt be filled with "horror and outrage" if it was suggested however. It is entirely possible to fundamentally disagree with something without being outraged.