World Hijab Day

[Marzipanface]

AIBU to feel uncomfortable with this day and also really irritated at the lack of discussion over this event from a feminist perspective. There seems to be a wholesale silence from the Feminist blogs and papers I subscribe to, and I can't find any discussion on here. No-one wants to talk to about it.

Just that really.

I don't think dubious western fashions or hijab can be compared- except as an example of false consciousness- whereby each party feels liberated by their choice.

Although whether their choice is actually their own or due to cultural socialisation in patriarchal societies is another thing!

Hijab can be beautiful. I'd like to see it as an option for everyone with no religious affiliations attached.

"I was disappointed but not in the least bit suprised by the Charlie Hebdo attacks, or the other events."

.... You were disappointed by the Charlie Hebdo attacks...?

I noticed that one a few pages back. I wasn't able to reply at the time but I thought it sounded very much like saying, If you are repressed or subject to prejudice and bigotry, it's okay to kill people. Or if not okay, then it's at least a response which is to be expected. Which is bullshit, because plenty of groups of people have suffered major persecution over the years which turning to outrageous acts of violence.

I didn't respond because I thought it off topic but it was a racist, ignorant and deeply unpleasant post.

The French Republic is based on equality, freedom and fraternity.

Wearing an overtly provocative religious symbol contravenes those principles.

With a more integrated society, I suspect that people won't be quite so keen to put 5 year olds in the Hijab as the need will lessen.

Is there ever a need to put 5 year olds in hijab?
And what's an integrated society to do with covering girls as young as this?

Same post, really puzzling.

If men didn't exist, I highly doubt that any woman would choose to wear a Hijab under any circumstances, and certainly not in the searing heat. Just the thought makes me feel flustered and claustrophobic.

I certainly will never wear one, and I pity the women who do.

They won't exist in the west, in 50 years. I hope anyway.

Haven't RTFT but as a muslim (who wears hijab) I have never heard of this event.

YANBU to be uncomfortable with it; it is entirely within your remit and rights to not do anything that you do not want to.

Allah on a bike, venus, that link is horrifying. It paints men in such an awful light - as animals who lose all control at a bit of bare female flesh. It makes me think of those poor girls in Rotherham. I can imagine that if you've been taught those beliefs, those men could tell themselves that the girls deserved what they got for provoking men's' lust by dressing 'immodestly'.

Thanks for checking in, yankee. I'm genuinely glad to have heard from you.

YANBU to be uncomfortable with it; it is entirely within your remit and rights to not do anything that you do not want to

Thank you for that reply yankeecandle. This is a difficult subject to discuss without trespassing on peoples genuine and sincere personal beliefs.
I'm personally all in favour of 'walking in the other person's shoes' as the saying goes. If we could all do so it should reduce the unnecessary vitriol surrounding different cultures and beliefs. But this has to work both ways. It has been suggested up thread that for a hijab day to work it is also necessary to have a non-hijab day. Do you think that could work?

If there was a no hijab day, then every one should have the right to wear it or nit wear it as they choose. Same as hijab day, or a long dress day, or a whatever day. Choice should not be taken away from the woman.

Soso that is how I feel. If you like it, do it; if you don't, don't do it. No one is suggesting that anyone has to wear it. From google I gather the idea behind WHD is for (anyone who wants to) to experience the day wearing it. A chance to see how society can view you differently when you have a piece of material on your head. It can be so bizarre how many assumptions people make about you when wear it, some of which have been mentioned here.

I chose to wear hijab myself. My father was against this and my mother asked me to leave the house. I feel it is inherently against the feminist movement to be offended by the choice that I have made about what I wear. I do not equate covering with oppression, nor nakedness with liberty. This is something personal to me, I have no desire to speak on behalf of anyone else or speculate as to why anyone is wearing what.

It is not "inherently against the feminist movement" to be offended by something a woman does. You have made a personal, individual choice, as is your right. But it is not necessarily a feminist one. Not every choice a woman makes is feminist. Some are damaging to other women. Neither is the wearing of hijab in general terms immune from criticism.

I wouldn't bother , yankee. I wear a hijab too and I feel far more oppressed by the assumptions, disdain and ignorance on here then I do by all the men in my life put together (who couldn't care less whether I wore it or not )

Good for you. As I have said many times on this thread I respect your personal choice to wear one, but it doesn't change what I feel about what they symbolise.

Really venus? I thought the feminist movement was about promoting choice for women without societal pressures to conform to "the norm". Maybe my understanding is incorrect though.

I'm not in any way against anyone who criticizes the hijab. It is their right to question. What annoys me is the assumption that people (usually women) make (and they present it to me as a fact/statement) that I must be wearing hijab because I have been forced; therefore I am oppressed. To me that is against the notion of the feminist movement. I can't see how wearing the hijab is damaging to other women either? I highly doubt that the majority of women base their decisions/choices according to what is least damaging to women worldwide.

What venus said.

I don't think every choice can be considered feminist simply because it's a choice. If it was, then (to give an extreme example) staying with an abusive man could be construed as a feminist choice.

The feminist movement is not a monolithic group, there are many different views on "choice". I wasn't necessarily talking about the hijab when I said it was possible for a woman to make a choice which is damaging to other women, just deconstructing the idea of a non-feminist choice.

Exactly, NewStatesman! Far more succinct and clear illustration.

Genuine question: what is a feminist choice? Are there different factions within the FM that construct/define choice differently?

Yes. There are people who would say any choice a woman makes is feminist by definition. I personally don't accept that to be the case - I think NewStatesman' s example demonstrates very well why that logic is flawed.

Yankeecandle, i admire your strength

In my own family, when a female relative wore the hijab, her husband was ready to leave his wife as she wasnt looking as glam as usual on his arm anymore!
He didnt leave in the end, but only after she said that if he cant accept it then maybe it is best that he leaves!

I love seeing the hijab in the UK, especially in the Pakistani poulation (as i am a Pakistani myself, so have a little understanding of customs and norms) because when I see a hijab, I know how hard that girl has probably fought against her family to wear one and how hard she has to work to be treated as 'normal' when out and about, getting torrent of abuse from islamophobic men and looks of pity from women who think her dad/brother/husband must have made her put that on.
not a single hijab wearing woman i know has ever regretted it or feels that she has no choice but to wear it. They are mostly very very confident women who dont really care what any man or womanaround them thinks of their hijab. They take the crap from the family and they take the crap from the racists and also take the condescending glances from those who believe they are oppressed. The reality is so far removed from this. That is my experience and yes i know there may be others who havent had similar experiences.
For those girls who are oppressed, they have much bigger issues than just being forced to wear the scarf. You have no idea how deep their oppression goes. The scarf on its own is nothing to them. They would much rather that their circumstances were removed than just their scarf.

Soso that's an interesting post.

The problem a lot of feminists have is that it is a sexist construct; men do not wear it, only women.

Here, we have fought long and hard and women last century made incredible social changes happen with considerable personal sacrifice.

Things that many women who live in the UK take for granted like having a mortgage or bank account, education, the right to our children, the right to divorce, the right to have rape within marriage recognised to name a few.

I have many Muslim friends, few cover. The two who do have told me that they want to keep their father and husband off their cases, and the pressure on them to cover is subtle but real.

This thread has, with many other discussions in this country, approached the ideas of Islam with intelligence and sensitivity, while also exercising our right, see above, to form individual opinions and criticise where necessary.

In that same spirit, I would respectfully ask you to perhaps look past what you perceive to be condescending sneers, Islamophobic comments, etc and think about what I wrote in the first paragraph.

The sacrifices our grandmothers and great-grandmothers made were real and we are proud of and grateful for them.

For many British women, seeing a woman covered reminds us how fragile and recent those rights are. Can you see why we would resist applauding something that we see as sexually divisive after the battle for equality that was fought for us?

Perhaps as a start, we could have a 'Everyone Watch Suffragette and Think About It Day.'

Once these literalists reach a critical mass they can start imposing Allah's will on the non-conformists by force, or through societal pressure. It's hard to resist & argue back convincingly when the edicts are steeped in Holy revelations and backed by divine authority.

Indeed and its this that makes the religion bloody scary.