World Hijab Day

[Marzipanface]

AIBU to feel uncomfortable with this day and also really irritated at the lack of discussion over this event from a feminist perspective. There seems to be a wholesale silence from the Feminist blogs and papers I subscribe to, and I can't find any discussion on here. No-one wants to talk to about it.

Just that really.

Can I just say something else. Never ever ever ever ever, in criminology, has rape been as a result of a short skirt or an exposed bosom.

So - Allah. Answer that.

Bambambini .

I feel so sad that you live like this and feel such fear that you will dress deliberately to avoid unwanted and dangerous attention.

I completely understand how that feels and have done the same myself.

That was not in Europe. Where do you live?

Here, I would be disgusted that a women should feel it necessary to hide herself away. I am not stupid enough to think I will always be safe here but I believe in our laws, our services and our cultural acceptance of equality to know that I would have far, far more chance of treatment, being heard, justice and compassion than many places I have lived.

Men get raped too.

Havegotaclue

Yes i live in england, yes i can report assault and harrassement.

This thread is about women wearing the likes of hijab and covering - not just in england. i've spent time in middle eastern countries, majority muslim countries. I've experienced many assaults and harrassement for being a young, western, uncovered, unchaperoned western woman. Shoot me because i can understand why some women might cover to hopefully protect themselves and not draw too much unwanted attention to themselves. It's a sad state of affairs but that is the reality for some. That is not me defending or celebrating hijab or women feeling they need to cover - whether for protection or because they are following a rule made up by men.

Yes, i sometimes wear a short loose skirt for sport because it is comfortable and practical. I doubt girls going out in micro skirts with 6 inch heels in the miiddle of winter with no coat - do it because of comfort.

I wear short skirts all the time. Because it's more comfortable. I'm wearing one right now. The girls you mention do it because of fashion and peer pressure, and that's another argument. If you'd bothered to read my post properly you'd see that I conceded that celebrating high heels wouldn't be a good thing either. But short skirts or shorts, or vest tops aren't a bad thing in and of themselves.

You sound a bit judgemental about those girls, to be honest. What's it to you what they wear? Point out where I was judgemental about any individual Muslim woman's stated choice to wear a hijab themselves for whatever reason, why don't you? My issue is the imposition of it on women who have no choice.

Venusinscorpio, I am quite surprised by your following statement

The hijab came about as a religious command to women to protect men from the effects on them of seeing a woman's hair.

If you are seriously suggesting this, then you are misinformed. A hijab is not there to protect any man.

Haveigotaclue, have you seen the stats on rape convictions in the UK? Whilst I like to look nice in shirts and skirts and dresses, but there are eo many things wrong with your push up bra statement. The oppression of hijab is not the biggest worry facing us, it is these daily messages that we give to our children that are the biggest oppression...wear a push up bra, that will get you noticed!

Bambam - nobody is going to shoot you (metaphorically) for understanding the fear involved. Why would we? I'm a woman too. I live with inferiority passed down through generations.

I can see fear in the use of the hijab. I can see submission.

When a girl puts it on, does she think 'I love this new hijab' or does she think 'I'd love to get an old Essex blow dry and look pretty and not to be seen as sinning for doing so!'

This thread is about women wearing the likes of hijab and covering - not just in england

No it's not. It's not a general thread about wearing hijabs. Read the OP. It's specifically about the hijab being celebrated as a positive symbol on World Hijab Day (which is a bullshit social media campaign, but that's not the point)

So your suggestion that they do it because they feel threatened is largely irrelevant to the point under discussion. Women feeling afraid to go out uncovered is not really something that ever can be celebrated. I'm sure you get that.

Sosodizzy - I dress well quite simply because I feel better and more confident when I do - is there something wrong with that? It demonstrates discipline, cleanliness etc. I can eliminate my social anxiety by dressing well. I just get on with the discussion in hand.
I could go in in a dressing gown. As could a man. He could pull out the pipe.
Not professional dress.

Haveigotaclue, are you suggesting that girls in hijab dont look pretty?

Sosodizzy - what are the stats outside the UK.

A hijab is not there to protect any man.

Funny, this Muslim woman doesn't agree with you:

idealmuslimah.com/calling-to-allah/209-the-face-veil-niqaab/1740-why-men-dont-wear-hijab.html

So why is that men are not required to cover what is haraam for a woman to look at? For instance, a man is not required to cover his chest and yet, a woman must lower her gaze, since it is a sin to look at the exposed chest of a man. The situation itself testifies that a woman is stronger than a man when it comes to controlling herself.

Allah, the Bestower of Form and the Fashioner, is actually honoring the woman by giving her the ability to control herself so well. In this way, one of the reasons why Allah has obligated women to cover would be because man may not be able to exert the same level of control as a woman. Without hijab, a woman radiates – biologically, receptors go out to attract the opposite gender. With hijab, however, the attraction is reduced dramatically and it is easier for men to go about without looking lustfully.

Sosodizzy - if she looks pretty, she ain't obeying the bould allah - and fair fucks to her! ;)

Venus - I thought you were done and going to stop arguing with me - make your mind up. You really are tiresome.

Like many threads in mnet - it has moved on from just discussing only "WHD" to wider issues and reasons why women wear hijab amongst other issues involving Islam and even pubic hair and high heels.

I think women wearing uncomfortable, impractical even sometimes dangerous high heels and wearing little clothing when it's freezing is a bit crazy but hey I understand and have done it myself - so no judgement on the women or girls - just a society that tells us that's how we need to dress for approval and to be attractive. But nice subtle little dig like you have been doing all along. And I think you do and have come across as quite aggressive and judgemental. Have to win at all costs.

Haveigotaclue, there are so many things wrong with associating push up bras with confidence and hijab with not looking pretty. Need i explain?

As for eliminating your social anxiety by wearing a push up bra, you are just conforming to what has been dictated by men that every woman must have breats of a certain size for her to be deemed attractive. You have walked straight into that oppressive misogynistic set up.

You are worth so much more. You dont need essex blow dry and push up bras with tight shirts just so that people would pay you attention. You should be valued for you, for what you say, not how you dress, not how big your boobs look, or how well styled your hair us, or how tall you look, or your size. You are great because you are a you - a woman.

Actually - some of the women I know who wear hijab look bloody glamourous and well dressed and blow the likes of grungy, hair dragged through a bush, old jeans and boots me - out of the water.

Do I like the reasoning behind it and that women are expected and often forced to wear it? No, not at all. But, as an item of clothing, it can look great.

Yes, you're right, I forgot. Thanks for the reminder.

But what the hell. One for the road.

But nice subtle little dig like you have been doing all along. And I think you do and have come across as quite aggressive and judgemental. Have to win at all costs.

You're every bit as tedious, obtuse and pompous as you think I'm patronising, smug and superior. The point is, your arguments just weren't very good. Cheery-bye!

At least follow your convictions and go then, feel free not to reply like you keep saying - stop making hollow promises. But, I'm sure you'll be back. Can't help yourself.

Venus,

It is not a sin to look at a man's exposed chest! If you are ogling, then there is something quite distasteful about that as women do not appreciate their chests being ogled at either.

A man is just as accountable of lowering his gaze as a woman.

The headscarf predates Islam. Women used to wear head scarves for fashion often with breasts exposed so the religious texts tell Muslim women to cover their breasts basically to guard against unwanted attention.

Soso

You can email the Muslim woman who wrote that about her interpretation of the Qu'ran and tell her that. I gave you the link.

having lived, worked and studied in France even 10 years ago I was shocked at the Islamaphobia there- and its not got better. I was disappointed but not in the least bit suprised by the Charlie Hebdo attacks, or the other events.

Bit late to respond to this, but I'm depressed and angry enough that I can't let it go. You must be so happy, then that Bataclan was inches deep in blood, that my son heard the policeman die, that I saw more ambulances than I have ever seen in my life (every 10-15 seconds until 3 in the morning), that I walked over the bloodstains on the footpath, the next day.

Glad you feel vindicated, stopfuckingshoutingatme. I feel nauseated and I'm having trouble wanting to live. Too much death, too close.

Venus, i feel no such need to.

She has made her point that she feels she is a strong muslim woman - stronger than many muslim and non muslim men. I agree with her. She feels that she is strong enough not to ogle at a man's chest, but many men arent that disciplined. I agree with her

I feel I am not responsible for a man's actions or gazes. I will do what i want, othes will do what others want.

Strange, so sorry to hear that. i hope your son is ok.

I wear short skirts all the time. Because it's more comfortable. I'm wearing one right now. The girls you mention do it because of fashion and peer pressure, and that's another argument. If you'd bothered to read my post properly you'd see that I conceded that celebrating high heels wouldn't be a good thing either. But short skirts or shorts, or vest tops aren't a bad thing in and of themselves

Er, that is a trifle judgemental - so what if it's a fashion choice. And it's wearisome how they always get dragged into these conversations as some equivalent oppression. They are not.