formula

[Emma2506]

Ok so I don't want to turn this into a whole ff vs bf war but I find it highly offensive to ff mums who can't collect advantage points/clubcard points, shops aren't allowed to have any offers on etc for formula. I understand it's the LAW but why is it acceptable to have deals on alcohol yet ff mums are penalised for choosing to ff or not being able physically able to bf? I know the excuse is shops promote breast feeding but I'm struggling to get my head around why a bf mum would buy formula just because it's on offer if she is doing well bf and it's FREE!

Sorry, I am confused. What are you talking about 'big baby '. DD was over 9 lb .is that big?

coconut Practical support includes things like whether it's safe to make up bottles in advance - people are being told by family and friends "ignore what the box says, it's fine to make them up and chill them", and being told by others "no, that's dangerous". This leaves sleep-deprived new mums feeling confused - having someone to tell them definitively, "yes you can and here's why" or "no you can't and here's why" gives a clear answer and allows them to tell people "actually, my health visitor/GP/midwife says ___".

Emotional support is a big factor too. Just on this thread there are several instances of people feeling guilt, anger, bitterness etc over inability to breastfeed due to lack of support either from HCPs or from family. Just having that support and knowing there is someone there they can speak to would be a massive help (and before anyone suggests counsellors, have you seen the waiting lists?) and could help prevent PND cases - after all, the highest incidence of PND was in mums who tried to breastfeed but were unable to, according to a study a year or so ago.

It isn't that FF mums begrudge BF mums their support. There's no desire to take that support away from them. They're asking if they can get a little support too - whether that's some objective, medical-based advice, or just for a professional to tell them look, you're doing great.

coconut

I'd have liked advice when I first started formula feeding my baby (initially breastfed) as to whether the "newborn" amount was suitable for her, as she was over a pound less than the guide weight. I got a flat "we advise breast is best" in response, which wasn't particularly helpful and I complained about that HV.

Other than that, you're right, formula feeding doesn't require support in the same way as breast feeding does.

I would have liked to have known how much/ how often to feed my 6 weeks prem baby who didn't want to feed at all (and hence needing expressed and formula rather than bf). I was handed some of those hospital formula bottles and left to it.

You can't bf a big baby

I've been following this thread from the start and I'm sorry but that's the biggest load of tosh. If that were really the case then the human race would have died out years ago.

"You can't breast feed a big baby"

WTAF??!!

"You can't bf a big baby" - what the biggest load of crap.

To be far to Cats I think she was quoting me on the 'big baby' comment, I mentioned it as one of the things people come out with that might influence someone's decision to breastfeed or not. I'm not sure she was actually saying there was factual basis behind the statement.

"They're asking if they can get a little support too - whether that's some objective, medical-based advice, or just for a professional to tell them look, you're doing great"

Thats what health visitors are supposed to do - give you encouragement and the information you need to care safely for your baby regardless of how you feed your baby. I'm not sure that the current pressure on the HV service impacts disproportionately on mums who are bottle feeding does it?

Ah. Get it.Big baby as a myth you can debunk with facts.

" I got a flat "we advise breast is best" in response, which wasn't particularly helpful and I complained about that HV."

Was it a formal complaint? Did you get a response?

Can't people ring the helpline number on the formula box if they need "support and advice"?
And doesn't help that you are in the vast majority as formula feeders? In no other debate have I ever seen the majority batter a minority so soundly and get away with it as in bf vs ff.

mini Some HVs are fab for that, others not so much - I think it varies from individual to individual. Some will say "we can't talk about formula", some will be really encouraging.

(I should make it clear I have no personal experience of this)

Ovaries - they can just call up the formula company helpline and ask them! They have teams sitting by the phones to answer queries. Or just go on their website.

And to be honest, if people can't follow simple instructions on the carton of formula regarding safe preparation of bottles and not just listening to idiotic advice from others on "ah just use boiled water that's now cold", then that's due to their own carelessness, not lack of support. Those cartons clearly say follow manufacturer's instructions on prep.

My health visitor gave me a change 4 life book on formula feeding once I gave up BF, doesn't everyone who chooses FF get this?

mini Some HVs are fab for that, others not so much - I think it varies from individual to individual. Some will say "we can't talk about formula", some will be really encouraging.

I think the complete variability in HVs and midwives is a real problem. The advice given is so different. Some really push formula top ups even where it's not necessarily indicated, some won't talk about formula. And that carries right through everything, not just feeding.

I think by "support" for FF people aren't looking for advice on how to make up bottles but rather - how to transition from BF to FF, talking through the emotions around transitioning, advice on types of formula, babies responses to feeds, any digestive issues, just information on FF on demand, etc.

This is off the top of my head, as I BF. All mums need support. BF is intensely physical - and requires an undeniably different level and kind of support. Nobody is questioning that. But although I don't FF in sure my fellow mums who do FF could use support oin their own ways.

An infant feeding helpline - which is what the NCT breastfeeding helpline tries to be although it includes only BF counsellors as far as I know - would be of help. Maybe formula companies have that - but to say FF mums can just read the tin is not fair. I don't FF and even I see that.

mini

No I didn't get a response.

In all honesty I don't think she'd have been much help had I carried on breastfeeding either. She was coming from a position where all her advice was "because the book says so" rather than any real life experience of feeding a baby.

I think feeding advice is one of the few areas where only those who have actually had children should be giving advice. Particularly where breastfeeding is concerned.

Alis - I'll add to that and say that only midwives who personally support bf should be allowed within a 10 metre radius of a mother who wants to bf. I encountered one midwife who was supportive, the others were all obsessed with formula - they shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near me. Luckily, I powered on and I'm now still bf my toddler (which doesn't appear to be that common either). Out of the few people I know who bf, they all stopped around the 6m mark. I personally don't know anybody bf'ing a toddler. Again, probably those shitty adverts from formula companies for "follow on milk" saying "when you are ready to move on" blah blah blah, causing people to think there's zero benefit to bf once baby is 6m.

In all honesty I don't think she'd have been much help had I carried on breastfeeding either. She was coming from a position where all her advice was "because the book says so" rather than any real life experience of feeding a baby.

I had a midwife like that. I was on month 6 of hyperemesis and she asked if I'd tried ginger.

I think feeding advice is one of the few areas where only those who have actually had children should be giving advice. Particularly where breastfeeding is concerned.

I have quite a bit of sympathy for this view.

I have pretty extensive experience of postnatal care, and I find that sadly, there are far, FAR more midwives and HVs pushing formula, and unnecessary top ups, than those actively promoting and willing to take time over breastfeeding.
In my experience of this in more than one trust, I have never seen a FF mother having support and information withheld from her, but have seen, many times, women who really want to breastfeed being recommended to top up with formula on day 3.

In no other debate have I ever seen the majority batter a minority so soundly and get away with it as in bf vs ff.

Can't help agreeing with this.

Jassy I think my issue is that some HCPs are pushy and unsupportive rather than the NHS policy as a whole, because I don't have a problem with them recommending breastfeeding it's that they're sometimes quite bullying about it but from your post, I'm gathering that's more to do with individuals than the NHS policy!

And the "you can't bf a big baby" was in response to a post Jassy made about bf myths.

With regards to ff support, I would have liked to know

• how to hold a bottle to ensure no wind gets in
• signs a different teat is needed
• how long can I keep a bottle for
• how to take bottles when going out/how to make them up on the go
• how often to feed
• how much was okay to have

I had no idea what I was doing. My baby was in NICU, I was told "you need to feed him every 3 hours", he was put in my room and everyone just walked off. I can remember thinking "shit, wtf do I do!" I'd never fed a baby, changed a baby, looked after a baby. As a 21 year old single mum recovering from an EMCS it was terrifying!

I couldn't bf every three hours because he kept screaming and not latching, I didn't know how to express (but figured it out) and did that as well as formula.

My point is no mum should be made to feel alone in feeding

Sounds like you really needed support Meow. I was told with my first. Feed him every 4 hours, that was almost 8 years ago but it was never going to work. Babies need to be fed on demand whether bf or ff.

With ds2 I went to see the HV panicking because I'd switched to formula and his poos had turned all green and horrible.

I was saying I wished I'd just kept trying to bf but my milk was gone (I could have got it back), I was asking if there was a difference in formula brands. Literally all he kept saying (male health visitor), was "it's cows milk, it's cows milk", and shrugging. Then he told me to make sure I was making it up within the legal guidelines. The LEGAL guidelines. I think he meant by the instructions on the tub. I knew how to make a bottle properly and safely.

I didn't know about reflux, cows milk intolerance. I didn't realise babies could react badly to formula.

I'll admit I knew breast was best and protected against illness but I didn't realise quite how important it was. It sounds so naive but no one in my family has ever had any allergies to anything.

We eventually switched formula which did make a difference.

Ds probably would have had reflux anyway, my dh did as a baby despite being bf, and ds was 'sicky' from the start.

I think women do need to understand fully what formula is because if everyone around you uses it it kind of doesn't register.

Women do need other guidance on formula feeding beyond just following the instructions on the tub as Meow has said.

I agree with ovaries. The support ff people speak of (well for me anyway) isn't how to make up bottles and practicalities. It's support as in "I can understand your decision, it's fine many people need to choose this too and their babies are fine". It's a non judgement we can see you are doing your best for your baby approach which doesn't make you feel guilty for doing what feels right for your family. You can't ring the helpline number for that kind of support.

I actually do think bf needs more practical support and in most places (from what I read on threads like this) that seems to be lacking, inadequate or badly done in most places in the uk, and that feels like a shame and a waste, and maybe if there was more sensitive handling of the situation mummy's would push harder, try longer.

Pyjama mine had just had a feeding tube removed and was still receiving IV antibiotics so I had to make sure he didn't get dehydrated, which was very difficult. I used a mix of bf and ff (which I would have liked to do for 12 weeks despite bf not being my favourite thing) but he wouldn't latch, I couldn't express enough to keep up with him, it really hurt and I was worried he'd get dehydrated. Eventually I switched to full formula and for me it was easier.

Mine did the green poos too! I didn't know about reflux and we ended up in A&E because he started throwing everything back.

I do sometimes regret not bfing longer but it was so stressful and I did find it a hassle. I was also afraid to ask about ff in case anyone told me I should be bf.

The legal guidelines is such a stupid thing to say. I luckily have a nice HV who is very good