To think taxpayers shouldn't pay for people to learn English?

[angelos02]

£20 million to be spent on this. If you move to a country you ensure you can speak the language surely? It is being spent on female muslims not that I think this is relevant.

The OP's fucked off - what a surprise.

I think it is a positive thing.

Unsurprised to see, yet again a reasonable discussion (though unreasonable op) has been besmirched by whataboutery.

This is apparently a budget cut in disguise;

"David Cameron cut the budget for English language classes in August last year by £45 million. Now the Prime Minister is dressing up a massive cut as a £20 million funding commitment.

YANBU. Maybe they can pay back the cost of their education once they are working and being productive citizens? Surely that will make them feel integrated and that they can give something back to the society that gave them refuge?

Why would you say it's being spent on female Muslims? Surely there are lots of people from around the world who sign up for English lessons. Presumably that money is keeping an English speaking person in a job too...

That said, I do think the regular migration programs (not refugee) should require competency in English already (it's what we require here in Australia).

David Cameron cut the budget for English language classes in August last year by £45 million. Now the Prime Minister is dressing up a massive cut as a £20 million funding commitment

Sounds about right

I'm shocked to see that ESOL isn't free everywhere - thanks PP: in the past 7 years, I've lived in several major NE cities, one major NW and one small SW one, in all of which there is and continues to be quite extensive free provision, as there is in my home area in the SE. I suppose this is something where local councils have control, then, and decide what is and what isn't?

I have been a volunteer on both council and charitably run schemes since I move back to the UK a decade ago (am qualified, before anyone asks, but it's not my day job) everywhere I've lived: certainly where I live now, there is an issue with women's access, particularly in communities where the tradition is often to return "home" to find a wife. However, the lowest take up at all, and the hardest to access community of all, is one that doesn't follow this practice: they have a relatively high proportion on LP families, which may be part of it (child care etc) but all sorts of settings have been tried and there's very little interest. Women from this community in general seem to have very little interest in integrating - but their children do a fantastic job, and generally are highly motivated towards education, very integrated, and do really well. I don't know whether it's because they seem it as an unnecessary skill, as they hope to return "home" one day, or what it is.

Also, in the biggest mosque in our city, people tend to focus mainly on their own nationality, even within things like the Sisters' Group etc People speak etc of course to others, but overwhelmingly associations and friendships are formed between people of the same country of origin, even when they may have the same native language as others from different countries.

But - language learning should be free for all in this country: I'm absolutely shocked to discover that it's not free in every area. It is worth investing in the funding necessary to enable people to be functioning members of the host society, aside from all the very real social and community implications of language ability.

"David Cameron cut the budget for English language classes in August last year by £45 million. Now the Prime Minister is dressing up a massive cut as a £20 million funding commitment."

I really despise this government.

www.educacio.novaciutadania.bcn.cat/es/cursos-de-catal%C3%A1n_3170

Catalunya has had this program for years - it is a good idea to give free language classes to immigrants.

The biggest group of ESOL learners at one college was Ghurkas' wives. When the government withdrew funding they lost ESOL entitlement.

I think if you are putting your life on the line to serve in the UK army then the least we can do is teach your wife English.

They were an extremely commited group, proud to learn English and practice it at home.

It's an excellent piece of "spin " isn't it? Stealthily cut funding by 45 million and then very publicly announce a generous 20 million investment in the very thing that was cut the previous year. Kerching!

I was shocked it was so little to be honest and not at all surprised that this is a budget cut dressed up by the tories!

When my grandparents arrived in England in 1946 after the end of the second world war, having fought with the allied forces, they were granted asylum and provided with English lessons. They knew they were never going home so buckled down and learnt - they probably had it easier than most as they were both already fluent in a number of languages each (and went on to speak better English than many native speakers), however my Grandmother often told me how disgusted she was that some of her contemporaries refused the chance to learn and settled in Polish 'ghetto's' where they didn't need to learn. She had the same reaction to her neighbours when the place they lived became a largely Asian area in the 1980's- she hated not being able to communicate with her neighbours.

Language is the first step to integration. If people can communicate with each other that is the first step in realising that our differences are only skin deep. Providing English lessons to immigrants is essential to creating an integrated society.

Well, it's better than spending a fortune on interpreters.

I do feel, however, that people seeking to come to the UK as spouses should perhaps have to meet a tougher standard in terms of their level of English before residency status is granted.

Don't know how much difference language lessons will make. My own experience as a long term resident of another country, is that language lessons are less important than day-to-day usage in terms of picking up the language. The expat wives I know here have access to the very best language lessons, given by professional teachers; they are still hopeless at speaking the local language because they live in an English bubble and never use it.

I do find it quite funny that people always bring up the "expats in Spain" thing when the question of "should immigrants speak English?" is brought up; why is it always assumed that people who think immigrants should speak English do NOT think that British expats in Spain should learn Spanish? Of course they should. Who on earth is defending the monolingual Spain expat idiots? I'm sure the Spanish think they are a pain in the arse too.

By the way, long-term foreign residents who don't learn the language of their new country (sometimes there are sympathetic reasons why they can't, sometimes it's due to people being slack and can't-be-bothered), they are a pain in the arse, and cause problems for people in their own diaspora as well.

I don't mind helping out newbies with translation and interpretation and research needs, as they are still on a learning curve.

But when you have people who have lived in the country for YEARS and they are still cluttering up the local FB page with photos of their new washing machine control panel etc. etc. and going "help, help, I don't know what button to press!!"" it's like... oh, for God's SAKE. Stop playing with your phone all day and try studying for a change!

It's an excellent piece of "spin " isn't it? Stealthily cut funding by 45 million and then very publicly announce a generous 20 million investment in the very thing that was cut the previous year

Absolutely It's also the mindset which made me wonder whether - once the nice headlines have been exhausted - the scheme will happen at all ...

No, op, YANBU. If you want to live in ANY country you should at least attempt to learn the language (I did), and it shouldn't be on the country in question to subsidise that. I agree with Alice and LoTeQ too.

There is only a certain amount of language you can learn in your home country. For example how many of you remember learning French at school? How much did you actually learn? And how well can you cope in France? I'm guessing most of us can only order a beer and buy a train ticket. You really need to spend time in the country to learn the language so the people coming over here might have some basic knowledge but it will seem poor to us

I know the majority of bloggers are going to disagree but just how much more money and help will be given to all these foreigners whether they be, refugees, legal immigrants, illegal immigrants etc. etc., over the years it must be incalculable.....it just seems so unfair that Governments can find all this money for others but if your child is dying a hospice has to rely on charities to fund them.

YABU, but I would think that maybe the implementing bit would be tricky - how do you convince people to go along to these lessons? if the argument being used is that these women are from communities where integration isn't supported or encouraged how will this change things?

If people have been here for years without gaining a basic grasp of the language, will this do enough in reaching them?

I'm happy for my tax money to be spent helping immigrants to learn English. How are they supposed to contribute to the economy if they can't get a job?

I guess you can't make them but if it is on offer and free, many will want to take it up. I think the fact that some aren't going for other social reasons is a separate issue, technically.

it just seems so unfair that Governments can find all this money for others but if your child is dying a hospice has to rely on charities to fund them.

Except many 'foreigners' work for the NHS and pay taxes, many people taking these classes will have spouses who pay taxes, and having taken the class they will be in a position to earn money and pay taxes.

Fair/unfair isn't really relevant.

Then, you have the issue of people being impatient and rolling their eyes at you when you're trying to speak English, because you should speak English fluently already.

Really?

English is not my mother tongue, not even my second or third language and I've never ever encountered this.

I think the lessons are a good idea, just imagine how vulnerable a woman can be if she doesn't speak the language if she's in an abusive marriage?

Compulsory lessons, and a test will prevent husbands from stopping women going to the classes.

I think even though it isn't really a new venture as such it is a good policy, as others have said its cyclical for poor immigrants, it's because their lack of integration is holding them back from contributing economically. They take more in benefits because they can't work. They can't work because they don't understand the language.

I don't think it's devising, it doesn't matter that they're Muslim, or Polish, or even British born. If your own choices lock you out of being able to work, the government should be encouraging you to remedy that situation.

*divisive

Maybe I should take the lessons myself.