To think taxpayers shouldn't pay for people to learn English?

[angelos02]

£20 million to be spent on this. If you move to a country you ensure you can speak the language surely? It is being spent on female muslims not that I think this is relevant.

Of course we shouldn't. People who can't speak our language cannot enter unless they can fund themselves for the forseeable future. I am talking Immigrants here not asylum seekers by the way.

Which level would be acceptable? It takes years to achieve fluency in a second language if you are not submersed in the country

But they are submerged, they are living here.

I honestly think speaking the language will give the women more freedom, why is that a bad thing?

Oh I was talking about people about to come in

And I do think it's a good thing. I'm just not sure which level of English you'd be testing new entrants for because it would be unrealistic for it to be of a high standard if they have not lived here and have only had lessons in their own country

Yabvu- value for £ to invest to save on welfare, housing, translation etc. £20m drop in the ocean compared to that! . Leave alone the on-costs pf a society getting even more divisive-sujugation of wonen, religious intolerance, terrorim,

The courses will be in the UK, so the people who take them will be in the UK, so not about to come, but already in.

There are many level/entry tests already in existence which can be taken and are recognised both here and overseas, so that's not a problem at all.

It takes years to achieve fluency in a second language if you are not submersed in the country

They are not asking refugees to know fluent English before being accepted though are they, from what I understand it's a rehash of an existing policy that is specifically targeted and you have a decent time period to show progress of ~2years (I'm sure some can point out I'm wrong), they are already here within the UK and are already submersed.

X posted with a moving and Attila

And I do think it's a good thing. I'm just not sure which level of English you'd be testing new entrants for because it would be unrealistic for it to be of a high standard if they have not lived here and have only had lessons in their own country

You can get by with surprisingly little. 1,000 words will get most people by day to day (if I recall most daily conversations consist of 1,000 words). 5,000 will see you up to A level, and 10,000 a degree. Not to minimise grammar and syntax, but English is actually a very easy language to be understood in, compared to some.

This is from the press release:

"The new English language scheme will reach tens of thousands of the most isolated women and will be targeted to specific communities based on Louise Casey’s ongoing review into segregation in England.
Classes will take place in homes, schools and community facilities, with travel and childcare costs provided to remove some of the greatest barriers to participation.
It will build on and extend the English language fund, run by the Department for Communities and Local Government, which will have provided training to 33,500 adults by March 2016.
In the last Parliament we introduced new English language requirements to immigration rules.
Those applying to settle permanently in the UK must now be able to speak intermediate English and pass a Life in the UK test, based on British history, culture and values.
New visa rules will mean those coming to the UK on a spouse visa will be expected to become more fluent in English over time, with a new language test for those seeking a visa extension after 2 and a half years in the UK. They will not be introduced before October, to allow migrants time to improve English language skills.
There are no plans to remove migrants who fail to reach the required level, but it would be taken into account in any request to extend visas or apply for permanent residence."

So "intermediate English" is already a requirement for those applying to settle permanently, and in addition people coming in on a spouse visa would have to show that they were becoming more fluent in English. Not sure why all the reports are focussing on a supposed threat to deport everyone who fails the test, in view of the last sentence quoted above.

This 20 million is not a new investment. In the summer Cameron and Osborne cut 45 million for language tuition for migrants. Now they're giving 20 million back and pretend they're investing. It's still a cut of 25 million.

They are pulling the wool over our eyes with their cuts and "investments".

Housebound Arabic speaking Muslim women do not need to leave the house in order to learn basic English. Nor do they need to pay for lessons. Provided there is a PC or ipad in the house - and very many households, particularly those with children at school, will own one - the Duolingo Arabic to English course is available and free.

Someone on MN mentioned Duolingo; I investigated and am now, a few months later, reasonably competent in Spanish. I could hold a simple conversation with a doctor or a child's teacher. Informing women of this free tuition and encouraging them to take advantage of it would be a sensible addition to any official language teaching programme.

There's one thing if you learn at home - things tend to get put off.

IN a class you have to make time, go out, work with other people all of which are good if someone is isolated and cannot integrate. Classes can provide information about other local services and further courses or you can simply meet other people and make friends.

Learning at home does nothing for integrating, apart from some language skills which is good but a teacher can correct mistakes and set appropriate home work.

Yes, Ottilia having spent the bulk of my professional life managing adult education provision, I need no convincing as to the benefits of classes for all sorts of reasons.

However I was pointing out a means by which women who are unable to leave the home could still acquire basic English without any expense.

Oh to put my halfpenny worth in - I have no understanding of why this initiative wouldn't be embraced by the vast majority of educated British women - It's likely that many of the women who are seeking asylum or refugee status from Islamic countries are going to be less educated than their male family members, education is one of the fastest routes towards equality, learning a language such as English (which is considered a Global Language by many) will not only help them to integrate into British society - it will provide them with an opportunity to access more education opportunities; and be beneficial to them if they are able to return to their homeland.

As a Brit living outside the UK I know, like tb and her husband that it's very, very difficult to self teach a language when you are studying, working, thinking, reading, interacting in the home; all in your native language.

Here I don't have access to Dutch lessons as I am British and there is no requirement for British ex-pats to pass NT2 (Dutch as a second language test) and citizenship tests as part of their right to stay in the Netherlands - the cost of a once a week 10 week course is 1000 euros. I can't afford this (without really feeling the pinch - I also think 10 weeks would be insufficient to for me to become a proficient Dutch speaker) and tbh, my learning curve has been so steep since I moved 3.5 years ago, that I don't think I've got the room in my head, let alone the time to devote.

My Dutch is at best BICs (Basic Interactive Communication Skills) - about B1 level (speaking) but passive knowledge is significantly better so reading and listening skills are higher.

I'm looking forward to having finished my Masters so that I have more time to dedicate to language.

BrewsterToo - I should have known there was something fecking untruthful about an initiative that sounded so good.

Don't get arsey Tricky it's not like I can see your LinkedIn profile.

What I think it's that if there are too many provisions to learn from home then this can be exploited by husbands and family to put pressure on the women to stay and lean from home.
Of course if someone has a medical condition or disability then yes, by all means learn from home, but if you're fit enough to go shopping then you should be fit enough to do the courses.

Someone said, up thread, 'I can't understand why immigrants wouldn't do everything to learn the language of the country they've come to'.

Well, let's assume they DO want to learn - they then need LESSONS! 20 million is peanuts. I'd be in favour of (nearly) free English lessons for anybody who wants them.

Language is liberation. Education is liberation.

Women who are kept at home need to be got out of the home to receive anything at all.

Education is key, its a feminist issue.

Its for basic lessons, not a degree.

Arsey, Ottillia? What are you on about? I was agreeing that classes are an excellent thing, but sadly, not everyone can get to them.

Are you always so belligerent? No, don't answer; no need to turn the thread into an irrelevant bunfight.

Sorry, misread your tone there.

Years ago I was a volunteer on a scheme (CAB? I forget - it was over 30 years ago) where we went into young Asian women's homes to help them learn enough fundamentals of English, to get by. Things like the vocab they'd need for a visit to the mother and baby clinic, etc. I loved doing it and it was very rewarding. I always felt that it might help them, too if they found themselves in a DV situation. Imagine that, in a strange country, with no words to communicate to people around you...

People who have come here due to a political crisis, who are in danger, deserve this help. And of course there is no way they could have had the time to learn English before they came - chances are, they didn't even know precisely where they were headed when they left their homes.

A couple of years ago I was in the passport office with my son, who had been called in for an interview before they'd give him a passport. There was a middle aged man who I think was Bangladeshi, in the waiting area with us and as it was an open plan office, we could hear his entire interview as he went ahead of us. He was, like my son, getting a British passport. And by the look of him, age-wise he'd probably been in the UK for decades. But he had to have a translator as he literally could not speak one word of English.
That struck me as very strange; to be getting a British passport without being able to even speak English. (And I do mean not a word). This is a separate issue, and one we need to address.