To think taxpayers shouldn't pay for people to learn English?

[angelos02]

£20 million to be spent on this. If you move to a country you ensure you can speak the language surely? It is being spent on female muslims not that I think this is relevant.

[Trickydecision]

Fair do's. Thanks.

[Trickydecision]

Thanks ^^ were to Ottilia

[OttiliaVonBCup]

I think there is a citizenship test now, English included.

And of course there is no way they could have had the time to learn English before they came - chances are, they didn't even know precisely where they were headed when they left their homes.

That is true and that's why so many refugees try to come here, because they speak the language, and it makes sense.

I wonder how Germany are going to manage their migrants, German isn't widely spoken in North Africa and Asia. I haven't come across anything in their newspapers, but I might have missed it.

[MariscallRoad]

Learning English would provide opportunities for women to work and contribute to the family's income.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

Yes - we can't moan that people coming here don't integrate, if we don't set up things like this to help people do just that.

I'd rather spend millions on this, than millions on bombing people abroad.

[MrsFrisbyMouse]

Speaking English doesn't just give you access to UK culture - but to Western culture worldwide. It is a bridging language and about much more than being able to buy a train ticket. It enables you to access information on the internet, to read and watch a much wider range of media. It allows you to understand what is being reported in the news. It's about empowerment and English is a 'lingua franca' that opens up cross cultural opportunities and communication way beyond our own borders.

[LurkingHusband]

he literally could not speak one word of English.

colour me cynical, but I've seen some people who "can't speak a word of English" miraculously acquire it, when circumstances demand.

My Dad (immigrant) picked up a lot of Indian words when he worked for an employer (the English staff refused to socialise with the Indians and foreigners for tea/lunch, so it was necessity).

When he ran his own business, and dealt with Indian customers, they would sometimes bring an elder (who had the money) and have intense discussions in their native tongue. The look of shock on their faces when my Dad commented was priceless. After that, they quickly all spoke English.

(To be fair, my Dad has on occasion played the "can't speak English card" himself).

Because my name follows my fathers, when I was younger, I was complimented on "how well I had learned English". "Yes" I'd say "not bad for someone born in London.". I also got told to fuck off home a lot. I'm starting to feel nostalgic for the 70s

[LurkingHusband]

English is a 'lingua franca'

My irony module has just exploded

[MrsFrisbyMouse]

Unfortunate name I know - but it's what the linguists call it...

Just means a common language between speakers of different languages. The development of multiple world english's is a fascinating concept really.

[mizu]

All funding for ESOL classes was cut last year so that our English class prices doubled overnight to around £800 a year.

No reductions for those on low or no incomes.

Instant huge drop in numbers of those wanting to learn English and pass exams - a lot of them women.

It is constant swings and roundabouts with regard to adult ed funding, wish they'd sort it out.

[rosewithoutthorns]

Could I go to any other country and get free language classes? NO. You tried to make a business out of it mizu and I'm sorry for you but Im happy that this is no longer happening.

[LurkingHusband]

Just means a common language between speakers of different languages. The development of multiple world english's is a fascinating concept really.

A latin phrase meaning "French language" to signify English is is a common tongue. A jeux de mots to be proud of ....

[IPityThePontipines]

Rose - If you read upthread, you would see that several countries including Sweden and Denmark pay for all immigrants to have classes to learn the national language.

[rosewithoutthorns]

Im sure they might IPity, they don't have the sheer volumes that we do at the moment, so maybe check why that is?

[TheNewStatesman]

Sweden has quite a lot of immigrants now.

The Swedes are very generous about funding Swedish lessons, but to be honest it has does piss-all at improving integration. Sweden and Norway pretty much have the worst integration record for immigrants of any developed country.

American immigrants, by contrast, seem to learn English and integrate pretty rapidly in spite of the American state's stinginess at funding language lessons.

The big determining factor seems to be the type of economy that you have in a country. I'm not against free language lessons, as it happens, but don't expect the provision of these lessons to have miraculous effects on integration--history suggests that the structure of the economy have more impact on integration speed.

The US economic system is awful is many ways (extremes of wealth and poverty etc. etc.) but to be fair it is very, very good at integrating poorly-educated outsiders quickly.

The Swedish type of economy is the opposite--it is marvellous at creating a relatively egaliterian society, but it is awful at integrating immigrants. There is no simple solution to this.

[rosewithoutthorns]

The Swedish maybe what to stay swedish? I blame them not.

[rosewithoutthorns]

They have done this for years and it works for them. They have a smattering of immigrants that do unbelievably well due to the immigrants having to adapt.

[rosewithoutthorns]

*want

[FinestGrundyTurkey]

Haven't read the whole thread but has anyone linked to this in the Mirror today?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/quiz-could-you-pass-david-7203301#ICID=WA_mirror_pol

it says the course will cost each participant £1200.

the wording of some of the example questions is unnecessarily convoluted - I think the average British Sun reader would struggle to answer correctly

& I got this one wrong, & I'm quite good at English

What is the superlative form of 'fat'?

fattiest
the fattest
fattest

[MrsGradyOldLady]

The fattest obviously.

Actually I only know that because I've just done that quiz and I got that wrong. ..

[TheNewStatesman]

"They have done this for years and it works for them." You mean the Swedish? I would hardly say that. Sweden is widely felt to have the poorest integration record of any European country. The Swedes have tried very hard, but the nature of their economy does not "mesh" well with mass immigration.

[unlucky83]

But it's the Mirror ...they have to put the most negative spin on it because it is a Tory policy. I would guess they have chosen the very hardest questions they could find in the test ...
(Perfect eg of why I hate two party politics and the biased media (left or right wing) that goes with it - they blur the truth )

[Ellieboolou27]

I find that reading any post regarding immigration leads to the op being labelled as racist, see, this is the problem, are we not allowed to have an opinion on these matters. I think those of you who are quick to label posters who are racist for having a view / opinion need to spend a month or two working in a benefit centre ( I speak from previous benefit experience). How are childcare, housing and travel costs paid for while they are learning English...... Yep the taxpayer

[merrymouse]

We can discuss this without reference to racism and it will still be true that people brought in on a spouse visa will more likely than not have a spouse who is paying tax, and having improved their English will be more able to pay more tax.

How are childcare, housing and travel costs paid for while they are learning English.

In exactly the same way that they would be met if the weren't taking a few EFL lessons.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

rosewithoutthorns In 2014 the European nation that accepted the largest number of refugees in proportion to its population was Sweden (81 thousand asylum seekers lodged asylum applications in Sweden in 2014 - there were only 32 thousand applications in total in the UK, a despite its much larger pre existing population). Integration courses (language and culture lessons) are free to anyone not from the EU in Germany despite the fact that 203 thousand people arrived in Germany and lodged asylum applications in 2014 - and now those numbers are in the millions.

Claims that the UK is dealing with a greater proportion of immigrants than countries who fund free language lessons simply ridiculous.