To think taxpayers shouldn't pay for people to learn English?

[angelos02]

£20 million to be spent on this. If you move to a country you ensure you can speak the language surely? It is being spent on female muslims not that I think this is relevant.

Katarzyna79 Thats very sad. But its not like that where I live in a big city. The local mosque had its door set on fire by a skinhead and the local community came out in force to call the police and had the fire put out before the firemen turned up.
After 911 someone backed into a metal lampost and we all called the police because it sounded like a gunshot. We thought the mosque was under attack again.
The only people everyone hates are the skinheads, and they've moved out.

Nowt wrong with speaking your own language at home or even out in public. Its not rude to speak in a language people don't understand - its rude to try and listen in to someone else's conversation! exactly Natsku

Zorion would you seriously sit in a cafe in France trying to have a private conversation with your DH in school French form 10/20/30 years ago, or in a cafe in Vietnam/Brazil trying to hold a private conversation (as in not involving anyone else) in phrase book Vietnamese/ Portuguese just in case somebody wants to listen in on you? That is just a little bit loopy!

mistigirl you're right they're English speaking the ones who go to join Isis. some of them are my age and they take their kids and I can't understand it. Their poor parents can't rationalise it either.

I took up my faith when my mother got very ill, I was not raised in a very religious home at all. We did the basics like fasting in Ramadan, prayer 5 times which is a basic but was not really encouraged except at special events or Fridays. my point is those who are my age (I'm 36) going abroad to join isis have most likely been radicalised by outside forces very unlikely it was their parents doing this, since most of them are more into their culture rather than faith in that generation.

So although English lessons are a great thing for foreigners in general I don't think it will prevent the radicalisation of their children.

Katarzyna79 I suspect its the kind of xenophobia that is making you feel uncomfortable and worried for your children in the land of your birth that is the biggest problem mentioned on this thread.

Britain is a nation of immigrants, as everybody actually knows, no matter whether certain "I was here first, no room at the inn" types might like to forget it.

scwabis exactly loopy!

But ive gone to the other extreme. since I had many siblings growing up we spoke in English except to address our parents and that was very minimal speech. As a result my so called mother tongue is very weak, to the point I get a good telling off because my kids know English and can barely string together a sentence in Bengali. I wish I had made more of an effort its great to have more than 1 language, it should be looked upon as an asset.

""How are they going to target women who don't speak English, and get them access to lessons?""

This scheme is just for Wives coming into the UK on Spousal Visas, so they know who and where they are.

After 2.5 years, if they're English isn't good enough, they will be deported.

Then they'll have to go to the EU to claim "a right to family life", to stay, costing the UK many millions, to fight this and yet we can't afford Housing Benefit, Libraries etc.

I would like to add to Katarzyna's points. We're Muslim and live in a very mixed area.

Dd1's school is equally mixed, so she knows that we do certain things (prayer, Ramadan, attending the mosque), because we're Muslim, just as some of her friends attend church or gurdwara because they are Christian or Sikh.

She has no idea of negative perceptions of Muslims and I absolutely dread her finding out.

That's why he is funding it, because it's going to be part of the Visa application.

So anyone with a Wife with LDs, has to get her pregnant the minute she lands, so not to get deported.

I can only imagine if he stays in power that facial features will figure in selection, eventually.

Ipitypontypines my son didn't know either until we moved to the midlands. we hate it so much here my husband said we are moving back next year. When my kids are old enough they will learn about the harsh realities of life they don't need to know now. I don't want my kids turning into racist bigots.my own sis was a target since the 70s just on skin colour she never worse any visible muslim clothing and to this day she thinks all white people are the same. I have tried to reason with her, I mean shes polite she will even share food with her neighbours but she doesn't fully trust them because of her experiences. none of my other siblings are like that nor me. I fear for my kids I don't want my kids holding such views ever.

have most likely been radicalised by outside forces very unlikely it was their parents doing this, since most of them are more into their culture rather than faith in that generation.

This is also the impression I have had, and indeed the older generation didn't know enough about the hadiths/ Q'ran etc to counter any arguments put to them by the younger zealots....

ipity

Its sad but there are now negative connotations for all religions. Hard for Catholics esp in light of all allegations coming out, many people have a vicious hate for Catholicism.

Many are moving away from all religions right now...

Will - Thanks, but I don't see giving up our religion to placate bigots as a solution.

Many are moving away from all religions right now...

Ah, progress then.

I used to be an ESOL teacher and most of my students were Muslim men and women, some of who had fled from Afghanistan and Iraq due to the wars.

A lot of them were very poor and couldn't have afforded to take paid English classes, but the free ESOL classes were vital to them becoming integrated, making friends, learning how to communicate with the schools that their children were now attending.

I think it's a good idea. They're here already. Their kids are in the system. We should help them.

Ipity i wouldn't give it up but I have considered how I dress to blend in more, not really because I want to change how I dress, I feel like I'm being forced to for my safety and to be accepted, otherwise alienation will follow.

willbeatjan I think people will practise but not be so vocal about it unless they have to be, underground.

It's not all doom and gloom though Britain is miles ahead of other EU countries when it comes to giving faith groups their rights France has huge problems and I thought they had issues before they banned the hijab, how they got away with that I don't know. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else in the EU except Britain, more neo Nazi groups exist over there.

kitty yes good idea but not just for muslims right, faith should be irrelevant to learning English.

if I lived in Spain (which Id love to, I'm sick of the rain and cold) I should learn Spanish right, my faith should not come into the equation.

I wasn't suggesting you do . Not sure how on earth you got that from my post?

I didnt say " I post I suggest you all simply leave the religion...its easier" ??

I wanted to make it clear, its not just Islam directly due to the actions of ISIS that is giving your religion a bad light.

its not easy being catholic right now either, I don't feel any physically threat, but there is alot of shame at the moment with the all the allegations, abuse and so on.

I mean as a whole, the nation is declining in religion, I believe many are also leaving Islam.

You and many others on this thread may be from more liberal Muslim families but do spare a thought to, and put yourselves in the shoes of the women who speak no English and are being subjugated and taken advantage of because they cannot access the language.

This can only be a positive thing for Britain's economy. You don't want to end up like France, which has marginalised millions of its citizens. What's the point of having a big group of people who can't contribute to the economy and don't know how to be good citizens because of language issues?

The head of HR for a company I worked for was French but had lived in Switzerland for 20 odd years. There was a highly skilled Muslim girl in my team who upon marrying adapted a headscarf. The HR guy started making problems for her saying how this would not be tolerated in France. The France he left 20 years previously. He tried to get her fired but it was an American company and the CEO told him to give it a rest.

A few years after I left this company I ran into the HR guy in London. Over a cup of coffee he started crying and told me about his brother who worked in London but had been hounded out of his work by a homophobic boss. I didn't mention his behaviour towards the Muslim girl.

unfortunately faith does come into the equation, one of the worries is the increase in sharia courts. They can take advantage of women who don't know any different.

Muslim immigrants often choose to leave Islam because they can choose to safely in the uk. Lots of people leave Christianity as well in the uk.

A familiarisation course should be to help new arrivals to settle and be happy here. It should not be seen as way of attacking Muslims. In fact it would be good for Muslim refugees to be introduced to people from their local mosque. I think that all migrants should have some familiarisation whatever their sex or religion.

will that's b.s women usually go sharia courts after they have got the state divorce and their partner is refusing the religious one, and the courts help. The sharia courts have been approved its not like they are operating illegally,this is just scaremongering.

its usually women who ignorantly go to their local imams that's not a sharia court, they will get a wall of silence a lot of those imams don't even speak English and have backward cultural views on women (give them the English lessons Cameron! lol)

also whys it an issue now theyre been around for many many years the public were unaware of it, and now they are concerned?

its not true many people are leaving Islam despite all the propaganda actually more people are converting.

WillBeatJanuaryBlues They can take advantage of women who don't know any different

All the more reason to learn English then? It may help ensure they know their rights?

There should be guidelines and monitoring for sharia courts, just as there should be for all courts/providers of arbitration/mediation.

Particularly as with cuts to legal aid, many people are increasingly having to use family mediation, which can be provided by many different organisations.

DC has a strange habit of looking at a wider societal issue and deciding it's just a Muslim problem.

will that's b.s women usually go sharia courts after they have got the state divorce and their partner is refusing the religious one, and the courts help. The sharia courts have been approved its not like they are operating illegally,this is just scaremongering.

Have you done research in this area? How can you possibly know all the reasons women are being subjected to sharia courts?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sharia-courts-in-the-uk-should-be-stopped-from-presiding-over-divorces-campaigners-warn-a6762721.html

This comes after The Independent revealed how sharia courts are keeping women in “marital captivity” and failing to properly report domestic violence.

www.theguardian.com/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

What of its civil code though – which the Muslim Council of Britain's Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra describes as "small aspects" that concern "marriage, divorce, inheritance, custody of children"? According to human rights campaigner Gita Sahgal, "there is active support for sharia laws precisely because it is limited to denying women rights in the family. No hands are being cut off, so there can't be a problem …"

However Muslims want to use these courts, its paramount the women at least know English language.

also whys it an issue now theyre been around for many many years the public were unaware of it, and now they are concerned?

Eh????

So has abuse of children in care homes and now we are concerned so has abuse of the elderly in care homes and now we are all concerned?
Now people realize the extent of others plight, people - society gets concerned!