Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to feel sorry for my brother?

383 replies

Dunkin · 15/01/2016 11:36

I've been reading mumsnet for a while so I thought I'd take the plunge and join your little online community!

I want to start off regarding my younger brother. He's a well educated, good looking and fit guy (I'm hardly going to say anything to the contrary! Lol). Anyway, he has informed my mum that he intends to go to the states soon and have children via a surrogate.

The whole thing makes me feel sad. He has no problems attracting good qualify women around his age (32) that could hopefully lead on to more in terms of starting a family but he is adamant that he wants to have children this way. He has severe trust issues around women that I don't understand. There has never been any infidelity or abuse in our family. Parents happily married for over 40 years. Me and my two other sisters are happily married with kids also. He has never been cheated on either.

He brings women to family gatherings all the time who seem all doughy eyed about him but he dumps them after a few months. He's never been in a LTR. loads of women mind you, but never anything serious. The surrogacy news has come as a shock to our family - we all think it has to do with him making the decision to retire (he's been very very successful working in finance at a young age).

I did manage to speak to him earlier this morning. He seems to be hung up on how a woman will take all his money and turn him in to a weekend dad - stories planted in his head by divorced older colleagues and friends who have been cheated on in marriage.

So my question is how do I get him to take step back and help him get over his fears about women? How do I get him to understand that women that mess you about are in the minority. Am I wrong to feel that a child needs a mother in his/her life as well as a father? Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
MelindaMay · 15/01/2016 16:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsTomFord · 15/01/2016 16:14

Dunkin, being practical. I've just done surrogacy in California and am now applying to remove our DC's US passport/birth certificate and replace them with British versions. It's a complicated and somewhat lengthy process but the big but for your brother here, is that for a DC by surrogacy to be recognised in this way by the UK courts, the parties applying have to be a married couple (I've had to supply our marriage certificate). I know that sounds arcane but UK courts don't recognise single people doing surrogacy. If he's happy for his child to remain with US versions, that's fine but not if he wants them replaced.

MelindaMay · 15/01/2016 16:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cleaty · 15/01/2016 16:15

Not true. Where men are the main carer or equal carer before separation, they get 50% or more You can't leave the other parent to stay at home with the kids and do most of the care, and then complain if you don't get more contact time with your kid, than you spent with them when you were actually living with them.

MelindaMay · 15/01/2016 16:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cleaty · 15/01/2016 16:19

And surrogacy nearly always exploitation of poor women. It is beyond me how anyone could condone this.

FloatIsRechargedNow · 15/01/2016 16:31

Melinda yes I agree with you about the physical differences and dangers between the easier sperm donation and more difficult surrogacy route. However, there are quite a few very reputable surrogacy organizations/businesses in the USA and women who are happy to be surrogates for reasons other than poverty/needing money. The surrogates are making an informed choice and are aware of the dangers and commitment they are making.

For example - mothers who wish to give the 'gift' of children to those unable to have their own children and some women just love being pregnant. Money is involved due to the costs of ensuring the mother's care before, during and after the birth, compensation for the surrogate unable to work during pregnancy and admin costs.

The greatest danger can be that the surrogate wants to keep the baby which I believe they have the legal right to do.

Anaffaquine123 · 15/01/2016 16:31

Y. M. Nav krollollm. nmmMzaps,I
Sd

Anaffaquine123 · 15/01/2016 16:38

Oops sorry, baby took my phone when I nipped to the loo! Blush

Leelu6 · 15/01/2016 16:41

Y. M. Nav krollollm. nmmMzaps,I

Never were more profound words spoken. I concur. Flowers

Sd

Stormtreader · 15/01/2016 16:43

Im wondering if the live-in housekeeper will be revealed as the boyfriend/partner in the fullness of time...

FFTransform · 15/01/2016 16:51

Isn't this what christiano Ronaldo did?

MrsLupo · 15/01/2016 17:10

Struggling to see what's so outrageous about this scenario. As pp have said, lots of women make a positive choice to be single parents. I don't see why he has to be gay. I also don't think you have to be a misogynist to decide that you'd rather be a lone parent from the outset rather than risk starting off as a two-parent family, it all going wrong and you ending up with less contact with your child than you'd like. It's not as though that's a wildly unusual state of affairs. The only thing that strikes me as odd is the decision to do this in the States - no legal reason why he would need to do that. Maybe the goal is for the child to be a US citizen to make it easier for him to emigrate there? Or maybe he just isn't optimally well informed. He'd hardly be the only one going into parenthood with that shortcoming. I think you need to stop clutching those pearls, as people round here like to say, and butt out of his business. Your family sounds a bit claustrophobic to me.

FloatIsRechargedNow · 15/01/2016 17:11

Has the gender of the housekeeper been identified as male yet? Even if the HK was male, why does this automatically mean he and the DB are gay? Why is the HK's gender important? Is this another 'role' that is only to carried out by women or else it's wierd? Another nail in the coffin of gender equality if it is.

Y. M. Nav krollollm. nmmMzaps,I Grin

BathtimeFunkster · 15/01/2016 17:15

Im wondering if the live-in housekeeper will be revealed as the boyfriend/partner in the fullness of time...

Hmm, does he have a predilection for priestly garb?

MultishirkingAgain · 15/01/2016 17:17

A man goes into a new relationship knowing that he will get 50% at best and a hell of a lot less at worst

Only if he's a rubbish father when married; only if he leaves most childcare and housework up to his wife ("women's work"); and these are 2 of the main reasons (husband's infidelity the other) that women leave marriages.

If husbands are good fathers, properly taking on their fair share of domestic & family life, and regarding their wife as an equal partner, they have far less probability of "losing" their children.

NotNowBono · 15/01/2016 17:18

I don't think it's odd to want to be a single parent at all. If the OP's brother had decided on this because he was 40 and hadn't met the right woman, or had had his fingers burned himself, it'd be sad but totally understandable.

I just think there's something unhealthy, for the future child, about choosing this path on the grounds that all women are selfish, lying, money-grabbing bitches, because Keith and Barry at work say so. That's like deciding to live in a tent forever because your friend Pam's house once flooded.

Twinkie1 · 15/01/2016 17:20

He can chance being shafted by one of us evil sirens or be a v v lonely man eventually.

GarlicBake · 15/01/2016 17:23

Perhaps he won't be, Twinkie. I'm standing up for people who prefer living by themselves.

Grapejuicerocks · 15/01/2016 17:29

But maybe 50% isn't enough.

I don't think even 50% would cross most womens minds because there are so many crap dads. Most women get more.

If he is the best dad in the world he would only get 50% and he knows that. He's seen it happen to his best mate. He is being realistic. He can afford to do it on his terms and ensure 100%. I can't personally blame him. If he then meets Mrs Right then everything is still hunky dory.

Obviously a child is best with two parents but if it is ok for women to do it, then it is ok for men too.

GarlicBake · 15/01/2016 17:29

As others have pointed out, though, he hasn't thought through his argument properly ... or, more likely imo, it's not his real reason.

The man isn't going to need to work. He's going to have staff. Therefore he's in no danger of being the kind of father who - like his mates - leaves all the 'family stuff' to the wife and then gets pissed off when he finds the wife keeps the 'family stuff' after he splits.

If he's not gay, asexual or otherwise non-heteronormative, then maybe he'll meet Ms Right later on.

But a family that tries to coerce a member into heteronormativity isn't as supportive as OP likes to think it is.

GraysAnalogy · 15/01/2016 17:36

He can chance being shafted by one of us evil sirens or be a v v lonely man eventually

Hmm

Why would he be lonely? Plenty of people thrive and are happy being single.

GarlicBake · 15/01/2016 17:36

You're wrong, Grape.

A well-judged divorce settlement takes into account:
The contribution the wife (normally) has made to the husband's wealth accrual. She's usually done this by providing background support services, sacrificing her own prospects to do so;
The children's best interest. This is usually to live int eh place they know as home, to continue with the same schools & interests, and to be supported by the parent who's always been there for them.

If this turns out to be "more than 50%", it's a reflection of the extent to which he depended on her for his home & family life.

Original poster
Dunkin · 15/01/2016 17:42

This thread really has blown up.

Like I said earlier, I'll be having dinner with my brother in a little while so I might be able to get a better insight in to his way of thinking.

OP posts:
roundaboutthetown · 15/01/2016 17:46

He will have interesting conversations with his children when he is older, particularly if they are girls... "No, you don't have a mother, she was just an incubator who meant nothing to me. I wanted it to be that way, because when I was 32 I decided that you can't trust women not to be unfaithful gold diggers. It is best, always, to limit opposite sex relationships to financial transactions, my dears. I suggest the same for you - don't go being idiotic and thinking men and women can actually be happy bringing up children together."