AIBU to feel sorry for my brother?

[Dunkin]

I've been reading mumsnet for a while so I thought I'd take the plunge and join your little online community!

I want to start off regarding my younger brother. He's a well educated, good looking and fit guy (I'm hardly going to say anything to the contrary! Lol). Anyway, he has informed my mum that he intends to go to the states soon and have children via a surrogate.

The whole thing makes me feel sad. He has no problems attracting good qualify women around his age (32) that could hopefully lead on to more in terms of starting a family but he is adamant that he wants to have children this way. He has severe trust issues around women that I don't understand. There has never been any infidelity or abuse in our family. Parents happily married for over 40 years. Me and my two other sisters are happily married with kids also. He has never been cheated on either.

He brings women to family gatherings all the time who seem all doughy eyed about him but he dumps them after a few months. He's never been in a LTR. loads of women mind you, but never anything serious. The surrogacy news has come as a shock to our family - we all think it has to do with him making the decision to retire (he's been very very successful working in finance at a young age).

I did manage to speak to him earlier this morning. He seems to be hung up on how a woman will take all his money and turn him in to a weekend dad - stories planted in his head by divorced older colleagues and friends who have been cheated on in marriage.

So my question is how do I get him to take step back and help him get over his fears about women? How do I get him to understand that women that mess you about are in the minority. Am I wrong to feel that a child needs a mother in his/her life as well as a father? Thanks in advance.

If the OP's db has had loads of women, I think the real problem is his own complete lack of interest in sustaining a long term, faithful relationship. Maybe he gets bored too quickly. He certainly does not sound like a good long-term catch for anyone. And a tendency to tire quickly of relationships does not bode well for the long-term emotional and financial commitment of children. Even if one does leave them with the nanny most of the time, they do have this tiresome tendency to need you and use up all your precious cash. You can't dump them like you can their incubator.

Sorry last post was in response to fireside not Fide - we're all F names!

Here's a thought - as a fully-functioning male LP with paid-for assistance (like a nanny and housekeeper is really shocking) that enables him to continue in his successful career he's probably far more likely to meet the sort of woman he might want to have a relationship with and possibly children too. With the added bonus that he and his Partner won't be having to deal with ExP, Step Mum scenarios. Unless she brings those difficulties to the relationship.

BiL had loads of lovely "high quality" girlfriends but was something of a commitment phobe.

Then he came out of the closet when he was 32.

Straightest acting guy you could imagine, but he said he'd known he was gay since he was a kid. He has a perfectly liberal, non homophobic family and could have come out at any time, but he didn't. Don't be too sure your brother isn't gay.

He's probably thinking the housekeeper is taking the piss, lolling around in his mansion all day, juicing all his fruit and just polishing shiny stuff. So he'll get a baby and get his moneys worth - that will learn her/him

I was just joking about the goldiggers, in case it didn't come through

Not sure reactions would be that different were it to be a woman, rather than a man - if a woman was opting for donor sperm because she mistrusted all men so much she refused to involve them in the production of her child - without any background of abuse, bad relationships or dysfunctional family life - then eyebrows would definitely be raised.

I'm a bit about the 'live-in housekeeper' too. Is this 32-yr-old retired career soldier banker actually Prince Harry? Kate, is that you?

Exactly. I actually think there would be more criticism of a woman who planned to have a child alone because she did not trust any man.

I'm saddened (but not surprused) to see the level of double-standards applied to men and women here. How can we expect equity and equality when we don't practice it ourselves? There's nothing aberrant about a guy wanting to be a father. MN is full of single mothers and aspiring single mothers; this is no different.

As for his supposed mysoginy, on Mumsnet, there is a significant minority of very angry, possibly very damaged posters with a pathaolgical fear and/or hatred of men. They're rarely called-out on this because - I can only presume - it is assumed they have good reason to be so troubled. Well, maybe this guy does. Maybe he doesn't.

I don't believe his insecurities are likely to make him any worse a parent than the legions of women who post on here every day about how dreadful their ex is, how useless men are and how they're happy to remain single for the rest of their days.

I apprecaite people's defensiveness on issues like this, but the world would eb a better place if we were all a little more even handed and considered before passing judgment.

I'm a bit hmm about the 'live-in housekeeper' too. Is this 32-yr-old retired career soldier banker actually Prince Harry? Kate, is that you?

OMG

Don't do it Harry, you'll never keep it quiet

Banycham - It is no way comparable to a woman who finds herself single and posts to vent about her ex. If you can't see the difference, I don't think you are in any position to judge fairness.

If I posted about how I was going to have a DC through sperm donation as I did not trust any man, I would expect to be attacked on MN.

Babycham - I've looked up the word for the gender opposite term for misogyny and it's misandry - women who hate men, loads of Misandrists on MN. Totally agree with you btw.

Why in earth would a single guy pay a live in housekeeper? There simply can't be that many chores to do.

Banycham - It is no way comparable to a woman who finds herself single and posts to vent about her ex. If you can't see the difference, I don't think you are in any position to judge fairness.

Why not?

If I posted about how I was going to have a DC through sperm donation as I did not trust any man, I would expect to be attacked on MN.

But there are a number of live threads like this on MN and the OP has received almost universal sympathy and certainly no opporbium.

Why wouldn't a single person, male or female, pay for a live-in housekeeper if they wanted to and could afford it?

Because lots of women are single who did not plan to be, and who have shitty exes. Very different from not trusting any man.

I have never seen a thread here where a woman is planning to have a child alone because she does not trust any man. Link please

Whilst in an ideal world a child would have two parents, I can't really blame him. He is no more wrong to be taking this route than a single woman whose child bearing years are running out.

The reality of the situation is that he probably would become a weekend dad or at the most 50%, if they split up doing it the conventional way. Lots of marriages fail. Doing it this way gives him an insurance policy and saves him potential heartbreak in the future. It doesn't prevent him meeting a "suitable" woman in the future. It just means that he would never be in a position where his child would be shared.
It would break my heart to lose even 50% of my childs life and have no control/influence over that 50%. More women than men get custody. I actually see him as being realistic and quite sensible.

I think a 30-something woman with ample finance, who decides to have children on her own, is a different proposition simply because she can do it using her own body (with medical assistance if needed.) Men can't - biology isn't fair in that respect.

If he is insistent on his child(ren) having his DNA, he'll have to use a surrogate. I don't personally understand the need for a child to be your own progeny, but I appreciate it matters a hell of a lot to some people. So he's presumably ruled out adoption for this reason. That only leaves the question of whether he intends to do this responsibly and considerately, or try to get a bargain which would almost certainly mean cruel exploitation.

OP, I think you're slightly bonkers to insist he should marry one of the girlfriends so as to have kids the conventional way. If he wanted a long-term relationship with a woman, he'd be looking to build one. And he isn't.

I agree his stated reasons for that sound a bit but I'd rather he didn't "use" any woman, whether emotionally or commercially. If he basically conned a woman into thinking she had a marriageable relationship with him, that would be despicable. You can't be saying you'd rather he did so, can you??

I apprecaite people's defensiveness on issues like this, but the world would eb a better place if we were all a little more even handed and considered before passing judgment

Well, I suppose we could be even-handed Babycham if:

Fathers weren't always richer after divorce
Mothers weren't always poorer after divorce
There weren't so many fathers who won't take responsibility (emotional, financial) for their children
The huge majority of members of websites like Ashley Maddison weren't male

That's the thing: we could be even-handed if there were evenness on hand.

There is a difference in deciding to have a baby alone, rather than in deciding to have a baby because you cant sustain a long term relationship, because you think all women are to get you.

Women I know who plan to have children alone, tend to do so because they are running out of time, and have not met the right person yet.

If we as women want equality, then we should offer equality and accept that the responsible raising of children is not mostly a women's preserve and that men are equally good at it too. By evening out as many of the existing culturally accepted gender roles as possible, this will eventually lead to the raising of the 'status' of child-rearing. Many of the views expressed on here only serve to slow-down gender equality.

*Well, I suppose we could be even-handed Babycham if:

Fathers weren't always richer after divorce
Mothers weren't always poorer after divorce
There weren't so many fathers who won't take responsibility (emotional, financial) for their children
The huge majority of members of websites like Ashley Maddison weren't male*

They're not.

They're not.

True, there are many, but you're tarring 50% of the population with the same brush; lazy and offensive.

Ashley Maddison is irrelevent to the OP's brother as far as I'm aware. Grindr on the other hand....

FloatIsRechargedNow, precisely!!!

There is a difference in deciding to have a baby alone, rather than in deciding to have a baby because you cant sustain a long term relationship, because you think all women are to get you.

But a woman goes into a relationship and has chilldren knowing that there is every chance they will get a lot more than 50% and 50% at worst.
A man goes into a new relationship knowing that he will get 50% at best and a hell of a lot less at worst. Let's face it, realistically a lot of women also wrongly use their children to control their ex and he is subject to their whims.
It's not exactly a fair playing field.