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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to feel sorry for my brother?

383 replies

Dunkin · 15/01/2016 11:36

I've been reading mumsnet for a while so I thought I'd take the plunge and join your little online community!

I want to start off regarding my younger brother. He's a well educated, good looking and fit guy (I'm hardly going to say anything to the contrary! Lol). Anyway, he has informed my mum that he intends to go to the states soon and have children via a surrogate.

The whole thing makes me feel sad. He has no problems attracting good qualify women around his age (32) that could hopefully lead on to more in terms of starting a family but he is adamant that he wants to have children this way. He has severe trust issues around women that I don't understand. There has never been any infidelity or abuse in our family. Parents happily married for over 40 years. Me and my two other sisters are happily married with kids also. He has never been cheated on either.

He brings women to family gatherings all the time who seem all doughy eyed about him but he dumps them after a few months. He's never been in a LTR. loads of women mind you, but never anything serious. The surrogacy news has come as a shock to our family - we all think it has to do with him making the decision to retire (he's been very very successful working in finance at a young age).

I did manage to speak to him earlier this morning. He seems to be hung up on how a woman will take all his money and turn him in to a weekend dad - stories planted in his head by divorced older colleagues and friends who have been cheated on in marriage.

So my question is how do I get him to take step back and help him get over his fears about women? How do I get him to understand that women that mess you about are in the minority. Am I wrong to feel that a child needs a mother in his/her life as well as a father? Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
GarlicBake · 15/01/2016 21:34

I think that the view that women have primary rights over kids and men are lesser parents is damaging.

FGS, nobody's said this!

There are couples where the man gets primary care post-divorce because he is the primary carer. Also where the woman has to pay CSA and even 'maintenance' because she's the main earner.

Instead of whining that men can't have it all at once, why not take some time to think about why men's earnings are generally higher & more secure than women's (making them the more usual main earners) and women are expected to depend on their partner while raising kids, doing housework & shopping, performing the social duties, etc, etc (making them the more usual primary carers)?

While you've got your rusty old thinking cap on, why not also ask yourself whether spunking into a cup = equivalent risk to growing a baby inside you and pushing it out, with statistically high risks of disability as a consequence?

GarlicBake · 15/01/2016 21:37

no-one suggested the woman should foster and be screened instead of conceiving via IVF

Possibly because it's her own body she's decided to gamble for a baby?

Backingvocals · 15/01/2016 22:25

bluejug the other thread doesn't see the OP reveal a deep-seated mistrust of men. Here the OP specifies that he does not trust women - and as I work in the City it's an attitude of heard before and it's really scary. None of that appears on the other thread.

Also, re the gay thing, my observation is that decent women are more likely to get "left on the shelf" than men. I have hoards of lovely single women friends and no equivalent male friends. Frankly I think the bar for men is lower. Partly of course because men think nothing of pairing up with women ten years younger than them and that's rarer for women. So there's an asymmetry. And unlike the woman in the other scenario, he's got the rest of his life to find someone if he really wants to. He's not on a deadline - she is. So it's a curious decision to make if you have the option of marriage / relationship open to you and choose to do this in an alternative way.

And I speak as someone who went the alternative way - due to lack of other options. And at 40ish just as the door was closing.

So no I don't see any double standards here - I see a curious decision and some slightly uncomfortable opinions about women.

WahhHelpMe · 15/01/2016 22:58

Except your going by OPs word that already seems judgemental, and gas given her thoughts, for all we know it could be her misrepresenting what he said, but was she still considered a closet lesbian ?

hefzi · 15/01/2016 23:11

There's a guy like this in the village where I grew up: he never had a LTR because he was convinced women were just going to take all his money Hmm

I'm always slightly fascinated by these men in finance who take very early retirement - but never seem to do anything with it: the one in my example above retired at 28, and has pottered round the village in the 20 years since. He has a live-in housekeeper and a daily gardener (for his half acre garden) and has been on the parish council for about five years - but that's it. It just seems a bit of a waste of a life and an intellect.

He financially supports the disabled daughter of his high school girlfriend, and treats her like his own daughter, but doesn't see her often as she and her mother have been in the states since she was a tiny baby. He doesn't travel, but they do come over for a week most years.

OP's brother, in this sense, sound similar: wants to control the process, has the money to do it, and decides to "buy" children directly. I think it's rather sad - but we do live in a world with free will, so good luck to him.

LynetteScavo · 15/01/2016 23:23

If he has trust issues, how can he trust a surrogate? Confused

I have a friend who "used" (trying to think of a better term!) surrogate for her child. The amount of anguish was painful. There were occasions during the pregnancy when my friend was absolutely terrified the surrogate wouldn't hand over the baby.

Or maybe he does see it as buying a baby, and feels he can trust someone to sell him one.

YesIcan · 15/01/2016 23:27

This reply has been deleted

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Original poster
Dunkin · 15/01/2016 23:42

Everybody accusing me of being a troll, all I can say is that I'm not. You will believe what you want to believe.

I've skimmed through the posts. There is a lot of good advice and questions.

My brother says he has had consultations with people out in the states already via Skype about the process including with lawyers. He intends to go out there next week to have face to face meetings. He won't make a final decision until he comes back and has ascertained if he can pull it off.

As far as him being gay, trust me when I say this, he is not gay. He is approaching love from a risk reward point of view in terms of marriage, divorce, loss of assets etc. He can't justify it in his head. We are dual nationals and he intends to leave the UK for tax purposes within the next 12-18 months.as far his housekeeper goes, she's a lovely 61yearold widow.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 15/01/2016 23:52

Haven't rtft (too long, sorry!) and this has probably been said already but what stands of to me is his money. That's what he doesn't want to share. Married to his money, already got his wife/lover. Fully committed.

Shit situation to be in if so.

MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 16/01/2016 00:26

Yes, brother's real issue is fear that the woman he married would have the same values as he does-money is the most important thing. Someone had better tell him how efficiently children suck cash out of you,and quickly!

LucyBabs · 16/01/2016 00:28

With respect Dunkin you really can't know for sure if your brother is gay or not. Only he knows that.
I am close with my db but I find yours and your families relationship with your brother to be over the top. How about leaving him alone and stop trying to stage an intervention

FloatIsRechargedNow · 16/01/2016 00:32

Dunkin thanks for the honest update - I've been a supporter of your DB on this thread so far and more so now you've given this info. Even you must be laughing at the huge and frequent assumptions that he was gay Grin.

I probably can't stay awake for any reply tonight but my question to you now is - has tonight's discussion with him changed your views about his plans at all?

This has been a great thread btw - thanks.

WildeWoman · 16/01/2016 00:39

Well, I wish him well. You sound like a supportive family. He sounds financially sound. I wish him well.

Soooosie · 16/01/2016 00:45

He's probably had lots of meaningless relationships with girls (who aren't THE one), lived a very shallow materialistic disposable lifestyle and nothing yet has been commitment inspiring.

Soooosie · 16/01/2016 00:48

Money talks! How cheap. Driven by the wrong desires.

antimatter · 16/01/2016 00:53

Not very detailed update.

For instance how he sees nationality isdue for his child and what he feels about surogacy.

Or for that matter if he ever looked after a child on his own. I was 31 year old mother withour support of family but for my then husband. I trusted my own experience as I helped around my younger cousins and nieces.
He says he will get a nanny and move abroad with a small child.
How very romanic!

WhirlyTwos · 16/01/2016 01:12

My first thought was that he is gay. My parents friends son went this route to achieve fatherhood. My parents told me he was planning it, and I immediately said "he's gay".

"No, apparently not", they said. "He just has been hurt by women in the past and he feels time is ticking".

Fast forward 5 years and they are having dinner with their friends, the son, and his male partner.

LittleBeautyBelle · 16/01/2016 01:34

He is gay. He's using the "if I get married and have kids, she will divorce me, take all my money and make me a weekend dad" as a convenient excuse he is borrowing from his colleagues. A wealthy man like your brother knows all about pre-nups and other ways to protect his money from a devious wife. (Choose well and he won't have to worry about it.) If he wants to be able to date lots of women, and not settle down and be loyal in a long term relationship with one, then he is not ready, nor does he really want, a long term commitment that a child involves. I don't believe it for a second.

A single, heterosexual man does not give up looking for love at 32. And the only man who yearns for children minus the mother is a gay one.

You can take that to the bank.

Potatoface2 · 16/01/2016 01:40

i dont think its as easy as going to the states and having a child via surrogacy......there are laws and its quite strict....it has to be or else many people would be bring children back from 'the states' .....he could end up being 'shafted' doing this!

WahhHelpMe · 16/01/2016 01:41

How naive Hmm

GarlicBake · 16/01/2016 01:45

He might not be gay. He might be trans! Maybe he will be a single mother after all?

Am I the only poster hoping Dunkin decides to show her brother this thread? It could certainly start some illuminating conversations. Of one sort and another.

LittleBeautyBelle · 16/01/2016 02:04

Yes, Garlic, I hope so too, that OP shows this thread to her brother.

If, after taking a gander, he responds with nervous laughter and a frozen grin, then OP will know for sure.

Just ask him, OP!

Supposed fear of women taking his cash and no desire for long term relationship with any woman = Overwhelming desire to set in motion complicated drawn out process of securing a child by surrogate overseas and embark on long term rearing of child alone with a full time nanny

? That makes no sense. Rather, could it be:

He's gay and already has a partner, who is much younger than him and not quite ready to settle down, so he wants to cement the relationship and tether the younger partner to a long term commitment by having a child together (via surrogate).

Original poster
Dunkin · 16/01/2016 02:05

Got up to have a drink. Can't believe people are posting at this hour.

Look, he isn't gay. How do I know? I've heard first hand stories off of his mates (when they are sloshed) about his more, shall we say, spicier exploits with women (they've been in the room with him, leave the rest to your imagination).

My brother was a bully in school, picking on year 10, 11 boys when he was in year 7. He use to go school to school fighting other wannabe hardnuts until he settled down around 16. So I know he isn't gay. He's prone to making homophobic remarks as well.

OP posts:
aurynne · 16/01/2016 02:10

"Money talks! How cheap. Driven by the wrong desires."

Every day we can read stories of women who choose to have a baby to "keep" their DH or DP with them. Others because "their time is running out". Others had an accident. None of them "the right desires" in my opinion, but surprisingly no one here reminds them of that.

GarlicBake · 16/01/2016 02:19

Oh, I dunno, aurynne, posters mostly get pretty short shrift if they want to trick a partner into becoming a father or have a baby to manipulate a relationship - mainly because it's so very likely to go wrong. Time running out's a bit different, because it does.