To think Kylie Jenner is the best looking Kardashian/Jenner

[GreenTeaLover1]

She has progressed so much, she definitely the new Kim.

tali

There is nothing wrong with plastic surgery as such but there is something wrong, IMO for a young girl to feel the need to completely change her face before she even hits her 20s. If she was my daughter I'd be out of my mind with worry about her.
I hope she is happy the way she is now and doesn't carry on getting more procedures because it can easily get like that with plastic surgery, you can end up never being happy with how you look. And that's not a healthy way to be for anyone, physically and mentally, surgery or no surgery.

It's not about natural being best - I like make up and fashion myself, I dye my hair - I'm not natural, but it's about being happy in your skin. People who get endless surgery to fix this, fix that clearly aren't.

I don't think cosmetic surgery should even happen without extensive counselling beforehand let alone on women who are still children.

I think Kourtney and Kendall are the prettiest by far.

I do enjoy the show and like them as people but I do think that as a family they seem to value looks far more than is healthy. If Kylie has had a lot of work I imagine that it must be partly to do with the overemphasis on beauty she has grown up with and the pressure of being filmed during adolescence. Must have been pretty tough. (Relatively speaking of course).

I it's much more boring to think about things in such a one dimensional way.

What subjects are worth exploring in your opinion, Tali?

Oh please

There is of course more pressure on women but we all know the most tragic case of plastic surgery to change how you look. please don't tell me you thought Michael Jackson was a well rounded person (ignoring all the other issues)

She looks like a completely different person.

I find it quite sad, that she would make such drastic changes to her appearance at such a young age.

Kim was beautiful a few years ago, before she had work done too.

Khloe looks in great shape now, but the gigantic arse is just ridiculous looking, especially now that she has lost so much weight elsewhere. I just don't get it. The fact that they deny all these procedures is hysterical really!

I think

Enthusiasm just because it can be a symptom of unhappiness doesn't mean it is. Plenty of normal people get it. It's a personal choice

Mistress I think it's not good to project onto people. If people are happy it's no one else's concern.

How do you feel people are projecting?

As I suspected Tali - you're just not getting it are you? It's a lot more complex than you seem to think.

Mistress I feel people are thinking that for them, they would get surgery if they felt x, and so she must feel like that because she's had surgery instead of her own reasons.

sooty what's your point then? Because it sounds a lot like that

I think I've made my point quite clearly. As far as I'm concerned it's an ethical issue.

Okay so why do you think it's unethical to perform surgery when someone fully understands what they're having done?

I don't think the surgery should be performed until it's clearly established that the full understanding is there and the patient has made a fully informed and psychologically sound decision - and certainly not at the age of 16.

Have you seen her without the photoshop.

She looks 30. Has had every inch of her face and body worked on.

She's only got one facial expression.

So the assumption should be that the person isn't competent until they can prove they are then?

For cosmetic surgery I think psychological competence should have to be proved to the satisfaction of two surgeons if it's being performed privately and is deemed non essential.

I always thought Kourtney was the prettiest, now it's her and Kendall. Kendall is a natural beauty with an amazing figure.

I agree with Tali, women who alter their appearance are not all insecure etc. The thing with Kylie Jenner is her age, of that age they all think her look is great and when I was 18 with endless money and parents who didn't give a shit, I'd have got plastic surgery etc too.

You don't think that's remotely patronising?

What's your opinion on other unnecessary surgeries or modification? Maternal choice ELCS? Breast reduction (slightly different to facial surgery)? Laser treatment of scars? Permanent makeup? Tattoos?

Where do you draw the line? I'm not suggesting a tattoo is the same as plastic surgery but I'm curious what you think is acceptable

Tali I have a very bright and competent 16 year old daughter but I sure as hell would not allow her to have any form of cosmetic surgery at this age. I think she would either regret it later or it could be the beginning of an unhealthy overinvestment in appearance. Nor would I condone it until she was much older and sure that she really wanted it and was not being hypercritical of her own looks in the way that many teenage girls are. And I think Kylies mother should have discouraged her work too.

No I don't consider it patronising. It's about ethical safeguarding and ensuring that individual surgeons don't abuse their position for financial gain.

That's what I have a problem with, you think because you discouraged it her mum should instead of accepting that people are different with different opinions