Do you know any misogynistic women?

[ovaryhill]

I've been reading a bit about this and wondered how common it is.
Has anyone had any experience of this?
I know at least one woman who behaves as if she hates other women and is very derogatory about women in general, agrees that wearing short skirts means you're asking for trouble kind of thing, sees other women as a threat and would prefer to work for men
Any opinions or experience?

interesting never knew there was a catagory for this, yes I do know one. I wonder how far they are her own ideas or her DM though from the hate of the burn the bra bridgage.

Happy to bemoan women bosses, and so on.

Bert it was a general comment - not specifically relating to Mrs Thatcher.

I find all of those "reasons" why a woman might succeed offensive. I didn't sleep with or backstab or oppress anyone.

I'm good at what I do, better than some of my male and female colleagues but certainly not better than all of my male colleagues.

make thats very funny, sounds like a friend I used to know.

They - I do agree with that to a point. The problem is that women at the top aren't necessarily portrayed as leaders - they tend to be portrayed as back stabbers who, as you say, are at loggerheads with each other in a Queen Bee type way. Do we feel this about Angela Merkel or Christine Lagarde?

"Bert it was a general comment - not specifically relating to Mrs Thatcher."

I know. I was just commenting that it was a sentiment that I personally had only ever heard applied to
Margaret Thatcher.

MIL freely admits she is not a 'woman's woman'. She had a very poor relationship with her own mother, no sisters, no daughters and doesn't really have any close female friends.

I think it's more a case of her not 'getting' other women. She would never, for instance, sympathise about PMT or period pain and is very about the mother-daughter bond I share with my own mum (even though we drug be one another crackers!) and DD. If I mention that DD and I are having a 'girly' evening/day out we get eye rolling at a bare minimum & spitting feathers if we catch her on a bad day.

I must admit she has improved over the years though - with 3 quite feisty DILs and a pair of strong willed grand daughters she hasn't had a lot of choice !

Mum and I drive each other crackers - haven't had to drug each other (yet!)

Derxa - that comment of mine was in the context of the earlier post about the way that TV and films portray leaders (eg Mean Girls) - nothing to do with Angela Merkel

Sorry Sir. I'm a bit gaga after driving for 8 hours. Although I'm sure Regina George would give Angela a run for her money.

Eek - 8 hours Hope you've got something nice and cold in a glass while you're MNetting

Necking gin as we speak.

Quite right too - after 8 hours behind the wheel make sure it's a large one

"The version held by some feminists that she had to be twice as good as her male contemporaries"

Lass this is a media trope that drives me bonkers. The woman is often portrayed as über competent and therefore becomes unlikeable. I don't think it's that feminists think that women are twice as good as men but that in their campaigning for women's rights have been forced to constantly prove women's credentials in order to justify their worthiness.

eg. the comparison of middle class educated women to male drunks in the suffrage movement in order to show that women deserved the vote.

IMO, it's like Moran says , it's the right for women to mess up but still deserve the same rights as men.

I feel far more judged by women for not 'following the rules'.

Me too. I tend to have a friendship group that's split 60:40 males:females. Mostly because I work in academia which is still fairly male dominated and my hobby is sailing - which used to be more male do,inmates but not so much now.

I have encountered sexism from men; but some of the worst, narrow minded comments have come from women.

It took me a long time to have a child, I'd had cancer treatment in my early 20's so had assumed I was infertile. In those years before my eldest was born i was frequently dismissed by women as not a real woman, not understanding anything. I was judged, pitied and encountered prejudice over holidays etc because I was a woman without a child. My male friends never encountered this from women. And my male friends didn't treat me differently on the basis of not having a functional reproductive system.

I also saw that attitude displayed towards other childless women and, worse, single women automatically treated as if they were out to steal partners and husbands. Again, not seen in my male friends.

Now I have children I am still not accepted by many women because my Dh is a sahp and I work ft and am often abroad. So, basically even after i ticked the marriage and babies boxes there are still some women who want to criticise and judge me. That stinks.

I don't think it's that feminists think that women are twice as good as men but that in their campaigning for women's rights have been forced to constantly prove women's credentials in order to justify their worthiness

That's not what I was thinking of but rather the views expressed by some feminists that when there is a promotion with candidates of equal merit the man will be picked ; ergo where a woman is in a senior position she will only have been promoted because she was significantly better than a man.

God almighty zeezeek That's hellish!

That does stink zeezink :(

Lass, do you think it's true that the man will be picked? I actually think that these days the woman is more likely to be picked because there is a fear that if she isn't, they will be accused of discrimination. I could be wrong but that's the feeling that I've picked up on recently.

Why do all the women who prefer men to women hang out on Mumsnet?

Why don't they hang out on MENS FORUMS??

Oh yeah, the men won't want them! And they know that.

Lass, do you think it's true that the man will be picked? I actually think that these days the woman is more likely to be picked because there is a fear that if she isn't, they will be accused of discrimination. I could be wrong but that's the feeling that I've picked up on recently

No I don't think that. I can only speak for my own career and on the whole I'd say the best candidate is picked.

Lass, sorry, I meant if there were 'candidates of equal merit' - the only difference between them being sex. I wouldn't like to think they would pick a less able female candidate just to tick the equality box!

TheseBedroomWalls - "Why do all the women who prefer men to women hang out on Mumsnet?"

Having just seen some pretty shitty behaviour on another thread, I am asking myself that very question! Funny that we were asking whether women were 'bitchy' or not...

when there is a promotion with candidates of equal merit the man will be picked

I think this might depend on the type of organisation. DH works for a university; if there were two identical candidates (how often does that happen?!) they might pick the woman for diversity reasons.

Pre-SAHM, I worked for a private sector science comapny; if there were two identical candidates they always pick the man.
Truth be told, even if the woman was better they'd generally pick the man - mainly because they all bonded over poker nights/ pub crawls to which the women weren't invited.

I wouldn't like to think they would pick a less able female candidate just to tick the equality box

That doesn't make business sense and equality legislation works both ways.

It's rare that 2 candidates are exactly even. Even if in terms of academic and professional experience there is usually something which will distinguish them. How will they as people fit in ?

We assume when recruiting there is a possibility a female candidate might get pregnant and go on maternity leave. We assume they will return. We assume, because we have had to cope with it, that a male employee might take extended paternity leave and that he will return.

Neither situation is much of doddle for us- hiring maternity/paternity cover is not realistic and work has to be reallocated, but that's life and it has to be and will be dealt with.

But I wonder if people assume that if a woman has been selected, it's because she is female and so doesn't "deserve" to be there - so she has to work harder to prove herself and that she does deserve to be there

That has not been my experience as an employee or an employer. I've posted similar on MN before and had responses that posters don't believe me and what world am I living in. It's rather wearing although I appreciate your situation is difficult Ego.

Truth be told, even if the woman was better they'd generally pick the man - mainly because they all bonded over poker nights/ pub crawls to which the women weren't invited

I can assure that doesn't remotely figure in our selection process. If anything it would be a minus!

So, those of you who are saying that of two equal candidates the woman would be picked, and that there are as many societal pressures on men as there are on women and so on and so forth. Do you think that we have full equality?