Where do you stand on this one...

[Marilynsbigsister]

I'm not going to NC but will be slightly oblique about circumstances as quite identifying . Two very young 20 yr olds in a relationship. Been together 3 months. Male at Uni but lives at home, female working also living at home. The boy has mentioned to his parents (actually his mum mostly) that cracks are starting to appear because she is keen to move on to the next level and is putting the pressure on to get a flat together and 'settle down'. Boy has told her 'definitely not at the moment' his plans include post graduate study abroad for a couple of years . Anyway, the dilemma.. 2 days after the 'settle down' conversation, there was a contraception failure. Condom split, (apparently it was not just a small tear but from top all way to base. ) Boy has been taught from early on that he must be responsible for his own fertility and insisted on condoms as he is adamant he doesn't want children yet although gf is on the pill. Boy is now beside himself with worry, he begged his gf to go with him to get morning after pill. Gf reaction has been to refuse saying that if she gets pregnant against all these odds then it is meant to be . Boy is the sort to do the right thing. Would give up career goals of he had children to support. I know all the ins and outs because mum is close relative. Mum believes gf is manipulating her son into parenthood because this happened literally a couple of days after discussing settling down. What is the right thing to do if she is pregnant. ? Does he give up his plans and support a child he does not wish to have, took precautions to avoid and made his feelings very clear BEFORE conception. Or does he suck it up, leave Uni and get a job to support the child and learn never again have sex with someone he doesn't want to have a child with. ? For my part I have met the gf a few times so not enough to form an opinion except that she is much more mature than her boyfriend. (My relative is livid and truly believes she 'doctored the condoms - which would be impossible - she is too angry to be logical !)
BTW she was due AF on Monday. Apparently there are pts that are accurate to a few days late so all a bit tense in female relatives household at the moment.

I don't think she specifically told him she wanted a baby, just that she wanted them to move in together and "settle down" after 3 months as BF/GF, and when he said no, it is being surmised that she may have thought that getting pg would achieve her ambition.

did she tell him she wanted a baby before the condom incident ? because vestal seems to think so

I don't follow what Vestal was trying to say there but it's not relevant.

They were using contraception, they both know it might fail and if it does fail it can only be the woman's choice whether to abort or carry the baby.

So she bears no responsibility in this at all?
It is his simply because he had sex with her?

Who said that?

I don't get from the op that he thought the gf a fruitcake before this just that there were problems in the relationship.

this is interesting in relation to leanders earlier post- "Very, very few men change their character and temperament between conception and birth of a child. The signs of all of the above drawbacks were always there should the woman be interested in seeing them."

It would seem women deliberately hide "the crazy" until after the conception, whereas according to leander men proudly display all their flaws before conception am its just your own darn fault if you have an abuser's baby.

I have to say though, that while I believe it is every woman's right to control her own contraception and fertility, I don't at all understand why she would refuse the MAP if she's already on the OCP. She obviously has no issue with taking hormones (because on OCP), she seems to not want to be pg (because on OCP) - so why then decide that that MAP, which, after all, is only an extended dose of the OCP, is inappropriate? It's not an abortion pill, it's a prevention-of-pregnancy pill - so why not take it UNLESS she was hoping to be pregnant and move the relationship on to the "next level"?

It's not an abortion pill, it's a prevention-of-pregnancy pill - so why not take it UNLESS she was hoping to be pregnant and move the relationship on to the "next level"?

Maybe she doesn't know that it's not an abortion pill. It is a common misconception.

So she bears no responsibility in this at all?

She does - but as one doesnt have to hold a woman responsible - she will have to cope with the consequences anyway as they happen inside her body - it is not really something to be discussed.

I mean, I am totally against her running away before the child's birth, but apart from (allegedly) the mother of the Wizzard Rincewind, no woman ever has managed that feat.

Because, Thumb, if you're confident you've been taking the pill properly then why would you unnecessarily take the MAP, which can cause some women a lot of problems, inconvenience and discomfort, when you're pretty certain you're not going to get pregnant because you're on the pill?

All because some dick demands that you do.

I wouldn't introduce unnecessary chemicals to my body on someone else's irrational say so.

Well that makes sense to a rational mind, Aye but this girl wasn't saying "i can't possibly be pregnant" she was hoping she was, and saying "what will be will be" - so it still doesn't make sense, except that she wanted to be pregnant. In which case I would also tend to doubt whether or not she'd been taking her full dose of the OCP.

It just doesn't stack up.

he asked her to take a map, which suggests he possible didn't trust her to be taking the pill but that's all

If that's the case (that he didn't trust that she was taking the pill), then he shouldn't have been having sex with her, knowing that a) he didn't like her and b) the risk of pregnancy was increased if the condom didn't work/split/leaked.

I didn't take the MAP after being raped because I was on the pill, it's very reliable in my experience and I felt I was already protected, why go throw heavy bleeding and cramps etc when it's unnecessary.

Except in this case it sounds odd and I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't taking her pill, she seems very keen on being pregnant, desperately so. Your DN needs to find a girl who shares his life plan - aspiration is a great contraceptive, there was no way I was having a baby until I had a degree and a career so I was careful. My first was accidental on the pill because I took a risk but I was about to marry and buy a house.

she was hoping she was, and saying "what will be will be"

No no, the boyfriend told his mummy, who told the OP, who told us, that this is what she said. And it's pretty obvious that this third hand information is being twisted to paint this girl in a poor a light as possible.

And even if she did say that, that doesn't mean she actively wanted a baby! Again, I might say that sentence, meaning that if, despite all the odds of me being on the pill, it not being the right time of the month and the condom splitting entirely and half and the poor boy not noticing the change in sensation , then maybe it was just meant to be.

That wouldn't mean I was actively trying to get pregnant, I just think that when there's a 1 in 1000 chance that I'm pregnant, I'll take the risk rather than upset my body chemistry with a drug I most likely don't need.

OK, so how do you account for her insisting she might still be pregnant despite the negative pee-test, and refusing to allow him to break up with her then?

Before people sleep together, in an ideal world, there should be a 'what if' conversation. I remember having one. But only one.

The girlfriend is a manipulative bitch young woman about to be shell shocked
The man is a poor innocent soul needs to take responsibility for the fact that sex can mean pregnancy
The mother is justifiably concerned has lost all sense of clear vision out of love for her little boy

The advice on this thread boggles my mind.

How do you account for her weeping and wailing and refusing to leave her boyfriend's parents house after being rejected, if she's not a pathologically needy nutjob? Woman needs to get some dignity.

She sounds like a bunny boiler, run rabbit, run!!

It would be interesting to observe bunny boiler's family. I wonder if her parents married due to an out of wedlock pregnancy. Perhaps it's the family's modus operandi.

Otherwise why isn't she out establishing a fun life, education and career instead of grasping at a guy she's only dated since August.

I didn't say she weren't crazy/manipulative, just don't pretend you don't know the 'consequences' of having sex..protected or otherwise...

Surely, from her perspective, until today she had a lovely relationship that was going so well she was starting to think about living together and suddenly without warning, and seemingly because she isn't pregnant when it was a tiny possibility, she has just been dumped in quite a cruel way. She's young and just had a big shock and her heart broken. We would all love to behave with perfect dignity no matter what gets thrown at us, and her reaction is quite dramatic, but surely a little compassion under the circumstances isn't unreasonable.

Vestal - I didn't know that there were people who thought the MAP was an abortion pill! How has that misconception come about? (bad pun, sorry)

No, it's not because she isn't pregnant when there was a tiny possibility, it's because she refused to try to prevent it becoming a possibility and wanted to push things along far too fast for the other person involved!
And there was a warning - she'd had a conversation with him about moving in together, he'd said no.

Look, I get that it's been a sudden turn around for her, but it is just possible she is one of those intense people who take things far too seriously far too soon (I knew a few of those at school) - 3 months is not a long relationship!