kicked out of nativity with 5 week old.

[nativity15]

I'm just after your opinions. I have name changed but am a regular.

We received a letter about the school play and it said no children under 5 due to limited seating. I have a 5 week old new born and took her along in her car seat as opposed to her pram so she could go on my lap in her car seat not to take up space. Lots of other parents done the same. Once we got there we was all kicked out it was horrible and highly embarrassing. The hall went so quite and I'm sure everyone was looking at me. I quietly explained that we was taking up no extra space (lots of empty seats due to lots being kicked out) and she said I still have to leave due to health and safety. I do not do public confrontations well so quietly got up and left but must say I felt very heartbroken about it. I know it's just a school play but my eldest who is 6 was extremely excited her new sister was coming to 'watch' and now both of us will not be in the audience. My husband works full time and never made last year's due to work but was on paternity leave so this year we was able to all go together....it's Christmas.....we also have a new born and I was very happy about it all....abit of family time and all of us going to see her at her christmas play it just made me feel all warm and cosy and christmasy.

Anyway turns out it was nothing to do with health and safety and was an excuse to get me and the parents before me out the hall.

I have complained about this. Lots of the children have younger siblings. Not everyone has childcare so a lot of angry mum's and dads missed out.

So it turns out that this new 'heath and safety rule' was really the new head teacher didn't want any children under 5...I assume due to noise maybe. This school has always been brilliant in my opinion. They invite in parents with young siblings to do work shops etc and the school children visit other places and people in the community....that's what i like about the school makes you feel and also helps others in the community. But now this has happened I feel the opposite
I'm sure all the children and teachers worked hard for the play and now some children's families won't all be able to come and see them now...very sad.

Aibu to say under 5s are also part of our community and they are part of the families who want to come to the play to see older siblings and shouldn't be excluded due to their age.

I would.like to say this new rule only came in this year. Last year there were other children. I didn't have to think about it until this year but don't recall anything bad happening last year's play so the younger children where obviously not that disruptive.

And as to the poster saying why would you bring a newborn into a school environment with all those germs...that would be the same germs their older siblings are picking up and bringing home every day? What a strange thing to say.

Shelagh you ask if the school is horrendous. Well, let me give you my experience.

Before I begin, the staff are fucking amazing for the most part, but they've got their work cut out.

I live on a council estate, one of the biggest in my city which itself is one of the poorest in the country by a country mile and regularly comes up when people talk about shit places to live. It's a sink estate, there's little social mobility. The school is an estate primary. It feeds the estate senior school that has had consistently horrific exam results pretty much every year in living memory.

Quite a lot of parents at the performance this afternoon, were for the most part unconcerned for anybody but themselves. There were people staring up filming, there were others chatting to each other, one was on their phone chatting to a friend/relative. Two were winding up their small (3-6 months old) babies to get great selfie opportunities. One couple had an approximately one year old who screeched for fifteen minutes or so, the child was only removed when the dad got cross because the noise was disturbing his game on his phone. One lady had her 3-4 year old lad stood on the chair next to her who spent the entire performance squawking and dancing about. The woman who wasn't allowed to bring her massive pram into the packed hall got the hump, and insisted on standing in the doorway with her child, causing a draft and a distraction in one. The people who arrived late had no care for the performance in progress, or the people watching, just charged in and moaned about seats left being in crap positions. The parent/grandparent who decided she wasn't sitting at the back and wandered off to sit in the midst of all the staff down the side of the hall was just the icing on the cake.

So yeah, a few fucking simple rules might have made an utterly shambolic 50 minutes a great deal more tolerable for the very small percentage of us who actually wanted to just hear our children sing.

Under fives out? Great! No recording or pictures? Marvellous!

No utter cunts? I wish!

^Anyway, my health visitor and breastfeeding supporter both said that if you are breastfeeding a baby that young it is discrimination to exclude you and if you wanted to make something of it you could. By banning the baby they effectively ban the mother too. It's not cool to cry discrimination I know, but that's what it is.
Pure shite. Away and wash out your brain.^

No, absolutely spot on. Don't be so rude. That's against MY rules :)

Procrastinator what a horrible post.

Selfish twats don't just live on council estates you know.

no utter cunts, I wish!

No, I'm asking who decides a 4yr old is unable to sit sensibly and watch? 4yr olds are not 2yr olds. And my ds2 and this child are indeed just days apart in age. If they banned all grandparents from doing the childcare then had this rule far more people would be up in arms. But because most people have options, most people don't care.

Anyway, the schools who admit younger siblings but have clear rules and the HT makes it clear that there will be zero tolerance for breaking the rules and it happy to stand by that, seem to manage fine with very little disruption. It's the schools where the HT is weak and pathetic and tries everything to avoid confrontation that have the issue. Where I work, the HT and DHT are hovering and would think nothing of telling s parent they need to leave. This is not disruptive as they are right at the back next to the door.

I can't believe you actually complained OP! For goodness sake you received a letter telling you no under 5's were allowed. What's so hard to understand? No under 5's mean NONE. Every year I send letters out stating no under 5's are permitted to the school shows however they are allowed at the dress rehearsal. The NO UNDER 5's allowed is bold and underlined. Every year I have parents turn up expecting an exception to be made for their under 5's. We have a crèche available, we allow them to the dress rehearsal but it's often not good enough. EVEN ALTHOUGH THEY GOT THE LETTER! FFS it's not rocket science is it? Can you tell I was frustrated today after parents turned up with under 5's even although a letter, text and tickets stated NO UNDER 5's?

Pyjama I was responding to somebody asking if the schools some of us were talking about were horrid. So I gave my most recent example (this afternoon) of an event at the school my children go to. Please don't get me wrong, the staff strive to make it a great place, the children try so hard too, but there's a core of parents/wider families who make you wonder why anybody even tries.

Pipes I should perhaps have phrased that a little less forthrightly, but edit isn't a function on here, and probably for good reason :o

I've had a now, life seems slightly less naff.

Our infant carol service (with beautifully spoken readings from the Yr2s), was ruined by incessant screaming from a toddler in the gallery. The carer of said child kept standing up to jig him about on her hip... which meant those behind her could neither hear, nor see.

I understand that she wanted to see her child, but nobody else could hear their children. It was very unfair.

I can kind of understand just asking people not to bring younger children, if only to prevent situations such as that.

No under 5's means just that, doesn't matter if it's due to seating or whatever
There were two performances so it's not even as if either of you had to miss it-YABU.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think a no under 5's rule for a primary school Christmas play is completely ridiculous - not least because there will be some under 5's actually attending the school in Reception and because a lot of those under 5's will end up attending the school themselves in the not too distant future.

My Kids Primary school has never had such a rule. My now 4 year old attended her older brother and sister's Christmas plays for the last 4 years starting as a new born baby (probably about 5 weeks old in fact). Today, she performed in the nativity herself as a child in the nursery class. My middle child also attended his sister's plays when he was a preschooler. Both sat on my lap and would have been taken out had they been too disruptive but that never happened.

I also think that a 5 week old baby is far too young to be left with a babysitter.

I think the school is unreasonable with their stupid rule. The rule should be if a child is crying, please stand outside the hall until the child is calm enough to re enter. This is how its been in all the schools my children have been too.

In my childrens last school one of my kids was a still a wee baby and there was a class assembly the teacher insisted I came along with the baby, I was reluctant too, not in fear of the baby crying but its a hassle taking all the baby bag, pram and what not to school. I went grudgingly since I barely attend events due to a lack of time.

But yabu for ignoring the rule and attending anyway.

Those saying get a babysitter theyre not cheap are they? I have no siblings to rely on theyre all in full time work. don't really know the neighbours ive not been here long, and its not the sort of house where you can speak over the fence, the fences are lined all the way down with trees very private. I guess if I was in a school with such a rule, after I have my next one due early next year I can say goodbye to my kids school events for 5 years? it's a very stupid rule. Do they consider single mothers they'd find it more of a struggle!

HeadOfTheHive's situation is different - reasonable adjustments must by law be made for her DD and her need to be on the oxygen does not change when someone has failed to plan for that eventuality. Telling her to leave the pram outside would be like telling a blind person to leave their guide dog outside because dogs are not permitted in the surgery - no I tell a lie the consequences of disconnecting the oxygen would be far more serious.

The school IMO have a good and objective reason for not allowing babies and toddlers at nativity plays. IIRC the Equality Act does not require a breast feeding mother to be able to take her baby anywhere. I can see how this rule may make it harder for mothers of EBF babies but think it is justified (unless there is somewhere to sit where crying baby will not spoil it for performers).

I do think the wording in the letter is ambiguous though as it suggests the reason is due to seating.

What a ridiculous rule - rule at our school is take them out if they cry. Such a shame for the children not to have their parents there.

And are people really expecting someone to get s babysitter for their 5 week old?

Yanbu. Not everyone can get childcare. Better to have a rule that you must take out a screaming child and not let them run about near the stage etc. I always did this when mine were small.

I had my daughters year 5 spoilt due to one person in the front with her twin grandchildren her refused to take them out when they screamed the place down. So we have 2 babies screaming and one head teacher trying to suggest they leave them the lady shouting and swearing that she had as much right to be there as everyone else. No under 5 is the only way to go as long as you have two performances at least. or a creche

Some of the logic here about adhering to rules is baffling... If someone said, "We can't have a fete this year because we don't have the funds'", but then a kind benefactor offered funds, would you tell them "No! We said no fete this year!"? If a situation is being accounted for by circumstances, but you can problem solve / improve it at no cost to anyone else, isn't that a good thing? Something to be encouraged? Isn't the problem here that the guidance was disingenuous? Natural consequences are an excellent learning tool for the head teacher here, it's a shame the OP and other parents were caught in the crossfire though.

I think yabu.
You were told no under 5's yet you still took your dd.
The people with the clever comments, 'it's not the oscars''it's not the Royal Opera House' etc would you say that to your crying child if their part had been ruined?
It may only be a kids nativity, but it means something to them!
Something they have worked hard on, lots of nerves and have looked forward to only to have it ruined by screaming/ noisy siblings?
I don't think it is unfair at all.
You didn't have to miss it op, your dh could have taken baby whilst you were watching, or dh could have stayed and watched. You didn't both need to miss it.
Everyone on mn always says 'they would take them out if they started crying/being noisy' but in real life not everybody does!
I was at a wedding sat next to parents with a young child and baby and they both cried and screamed through the whole thing!
They didn't take them out and i didn't hear anything.
Not everybody is considerate of others. It's sad but true.
A lot of schools now have a no siblings show and i don't blame them.
Everyone who is complaining, do you not read the multiple threads that come up every year on this suject about children having their parts in plays ruined?
I don't think they should make exceptions for babies either, they cry and scream too.
It's hard not being able to go to one childs show because of the other child, but these things come up.

The ignorant about the needs of a bresatfeeding newborn is astounding.
Expressing is not an option for all babies or mums and by not making an exception for small infants the mother is being banned - even if there are two shows and a willing dh

I wonder why schools even bother running these things with all the parents who think the world has to revolve around them.

Just wondering if the baby Jesus was banned...

Actually it could have been about health and safety. What makes you think it wasn't? Our school has the same rule and it is because the hall can only accommodate and evacuate so many people from the hall due to its size. If everyone brought a baby or under 5 the capacity would be so exceeded it would be dangerous.