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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

kicked out of nativity with 5 week old.

541 replies

nativity15 · 15/12/2015 07:51

I'm just after your opinions. I have name changed but am a regular.

We received a letter about the school play and it said no children under 5 due to limited seating. I have a 5 week old new born and took her along in her car seat as opposed to her pram so she could go on my lap in her car seat not to take up space. Lots of other parents done the same. Once we got there we was all kicked out it was horrible and highly embarrassing. The hall went so quite and I'm sure everyone was looking at me. I quietly explained that we was taking up no extra space (lots of empty seats due to lots being kicked out) and she said I still have to leave due to health and safety. I do not do public confrontations well so quietly got up and left but must say I felt very heartbroken about it. I know it's just a school play but my eldest who is 6 was extremely excited her new sister was coming to 'watch' and now both of us will not be in the audience. My husband works full time and never made last year's due to work but was on paternity leave so this year we was able to all go together....it's Christmas.....we also have a new born and I was very happy about it all....abit of family time and all of us going to see her at her christmas play it just made me feel all warm and cosy and christmasy.

Anyway turns out it was nothing to do with health and safety and was an excuse to get me and the parents before me out the hall.

I have complained about this. Lots of the children have younger siblings. Not everyone has childcare so a lot of angry mum's and dads missed out.

So it turns out that this new 'heath and safety rule' was really the new head teacher didn't want any children under 5...I assume due to noise maybe. This school has always been brilliant in my opinion. They invite in parents with young siblings to do work shops etc and the school children visit other places and people in the community....that's what i like about the school makes you feel and also helps others in the community. But now this has happened I feel the opposite
I'm sure all the children and teachers worked hard for the play and now some children's families won't all be able to come and see them now...very sad.

Aibu to say under 5s are also part of our community and they are part of the families who want to come to the play to see older siblings and shouldn't be excluded due to their age.

I would.like to say this new rule only came in this year. Last year there were other children. I didn't have to think about it until this year but don't recall anything bad happening last year's play so the younger children where obviously not that disruptive.

OP posts:
Headofthehive55 · 15/12/2015 17:49

hacker it's very difficult if you can't get help for whatever reason.
I think people should remember
There but for the grace of God go I...

Your circumstances can change in an instant.

Sparklycat · 15/12/2015 17:52

I'm really glad the school had the balls to follow through and ask everyone who has broken the rule to leave. Sick of people who think rules don't apply to them for some reason.

oobedobe · 15/12/2015 17:56

YANBU - a newborn is not the same as a wriggly, over-excited 2 year old. There should have been a babes in arms rule (under 6 months).

I also agree with some other posters that the a no-under 5s rule is petty and mean, if a school really has an issue with noisy kids, then provide a creche in a classroom or offer a different performance time when kids are welcome.

The only rules at our school are two tickets per family (not including children), little children are expected to sit on your knee and not take up seats or they can sit down the front on mats with other siblings.

Many families at our school have no local family and leaving little ones at home would make it very hard to attend.

No the performance isn't perfect, yes there is some brief noise from toddlers but it is just a school Christmas concert and the kids still have fun doing it. There'll be another one on next year.

Headofthehive55 · 15/12/2015 18:04

sparkly rules are broken sometimes because they are ridiculous!

I once had to break the rule that no prams were allowed into the Drs surgery. The receptionist wouldn't have it...no no I had to carry baby...no no she didn't know what I would do with the oxygen tank, perhaps I should just leave it outside.....Confused

Sparklycat · 15/12/2015 18:05

I really hope you don't teach your children that they can break rules if they think they're ridiculous.

BelindaBagwash · 15/12/2015 18:07

If I received a letter stating no under 5s, then I wouldn't bring any under 5s and certainly wouldn't complain if I was asked to leave.

I have been to too many performances where weeks of hard work have been ruined by noisy toddlers. You would assume that parents would take noisy little ones out, but they don't - they let them ruin it for everyone else.

Our school provides a creche run by classroom assistants so that parents who don't have childcare can still watch the show and it isn't spoiled by noisy siblings. Works perfectly Smile

pilpiloni · 15/12/2015 18:18

I'd also have assumed that this rule did not apply to a newborn of only 5 weeks, especially because of breastfeeding and especially given the point made by the OP that a newborn obviously does not need a seat.

The OP should have confirmed with the school but presumably the school would have said no, it's not really seating, it's a bullshit made-up health and safety rule. And for that the school are far far more unreasonable.

Toddlers and pre-schoolers can be disruptive and it's relatively easy to arrange care for them in most cases so OK to ask not to bring to plays etc but not breastfeeding small babies.

pilpiloni · 15/12/2015 18:20

"I really hope you don't teach your children that they can break rules if they think they're ridiculous."

Actually that's exactly what I teach my children - but only if they can get away with it.

It's an important life skill!

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 15/12/2015 18:26

Sigh - of course this does not apply to under 5s who are in the play - what a daft and ridiculous straw man argument.

BackforGood · 15/12/2015 18:27

YWBU
There was a rule in place - for a number of very good reasons - and you chose to ignore it, and were called on it.

If there were lots of you in the same boat, and 2 performances, then just link up with another parents - one looks after both dc whilst the other one watches, then you swap so you both see the play and help each other out. Everyone gets to hear what the children in the performance are saying / singing without being disturbed.

BessieBlount · 15/12/2015 18:27

All these people on here going on about toddlers making too much noise. Why are you saying this when the op is talking about a newborn? Maybe she should have found s teenager to act as wet nurse. Hmm

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 15/12/2015 18:29

If you teach them it is fine to break ridiculous rules as long as they can get away with it, I hope you also teach them not to whinge if they do get caught and don't get away with it.

And what rules do you consider ridiculous? Some people consider the rules about speeding and drink driving to be ridiculous - I don't want to end up sharing the road with someone who shares those stupidviews, and thinks they can 'get away with it' - people like that kill and maim others, far too often.

Barbarasmum · 15/12/2015 18:42

Wow, I've read the first 4 pages of this thread, so sorry if I repeat someone else's excellent points. I'm that person in the school office who writes the letter telling you how many tickets per child you can have, when the performances are and when you can buy or collect the tickets. I'm the same person who explains all this again over the phone because you can't/haven't read your newsletter and know nothing about it although it's been on the school's calendar of events since September. I'm still the same person who says it'll be ok to bring a toddler to sit on your lap - and I do really emphasise that please, if they're noisy it would be kind for you to bring them out to the office area. We'll look after them for you. No, you can't take prams/pushchairs into the hall. No, Granny/Grandad can't take their motorised wheelchair into the hall without prior arrangement because we need to know that they'll need extra space. If you say that you've lost the tickets you never applied for we are likely to look slightly askance when all six of you walk in. If you ask to breastfeed your baby in the staffroom before your child's performance we will try to be as helpful as possible, until we realise you've just walked straight into the hall to get a front row seat. We do wish all parents and children a very happy Christmas, and the knowledge that we're not - actually - idiots.

clam · 15/12/2015 19:08

"Leaving a 5 week old breastfed baby is far from ideal but you did it out of respect for rules"

Er, no she didn't. She ignored the rules and took her baby along!

I see we're still getting people here thinking they're being original by pointing out that it's not The Royal Opera or whatever. It's been painstakingly pointed out any times that this IS NOT THE FUCKING POINT. Someone's little 5 year old has been preparing for their one line for weeks, and now it's lost.

And also, we have people still suggesting that all that needs to happen is for parents to take squealing babies/toddlers out. And again, it's been painstakingly pointed out MANY TIMES that a) lots of parents don't do this, and b) for those that do, by the time they've picked their way along the line and out to the door, many children's precious lines have been and gone and been lost.

Headofthehive55 · 15/12/2015 19:14

sparkly yes because in that case had I not broken the rules and disconnected the oxygen keeping my child alive I'm sure you would agree that would have been a rather stupid thing to have done. So in that case the rule was ridiculous and needed to be bent or broken.

So no we don't follow all rules blindly.

pilpiloni · 15/12/2015 19:28

SDTG

The life skill is being able to discern ridiculousness and jobsworthiness when you see it.

Clearly speeding has consequences - both in terms of the impact of breaking the rule and the consequences of being caught (for the record, I have no points at all on my driving licence, never been fined either).

Banning newborns from a school nativity on the dubious grounds of seating and/or health and safety is ridiculous.

clam · 15/12/2015 19:34

"Banning newborns from a school nativity on the dubious grounds of seating and/or health and safety is ridiculous."

Well, hiding behind that as an excuse was silly, for sure. But it seems the overall premise of a school not wanting younger children to potentially wreck the schoolchildren's hard work is generally welcomed, if the views on this thread are anything to go by.

pilpiloni · 15/12/2015 19:38

Sure, toddler and preschoolers I could understand. My kids' school doesn't have an official rule but I don't take my toddler to events there because she would be disruptive.

But not breastfeeding newborns who often simply cannot be left without their mothers.

BessieBlount · 15/12/2015 19:39

But clam it has also been pointed out repeatedly that some schools do just fine when they stringently enforce the rules. If you bring a toddler you must sit at the back even if you're first in. If your child fusses you must step out or you will be asked to leave. Ht stands at the front before it starts. Any parent forward of x row with a toddler must move. Anyone whose toddler gets restless must leave straight away.
However, the op didn't have a toddler. She had a newborn, newborns do not squeal and chat and eat noisy snacks whilst wanting to get down and run around. They either sleep through the entire thing or they look like they might fuss and you either pop them on the breast or give them some milk from a bottle. 99% of the time they'll be fast asleep again within 2 minutes. They also don't disrupt anyone trying to view from behind them nor do they annoy the person next to you. Not allowing a newborn is completely bonkers. As I said, when I took dd at 6days she slept through it and as she was breastfeeding every 20/30min at that point I couldn't even have left her with DH.

It is a ridiculous rule though when ds2 whose b'day is sept 3rd so he was 4, wasn't deemed sensible enough to be allowed to attend yet the boy 3 doors up who was at nursery with him but whose birthday is 29th Aug so just 5days older than ds2 was up on stage with his reception class.

MeriMeriQuiteContrary · 15/12/2015 19:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BessieBlount · 15/12/2015 19:49

So what about the child on stage just s few days older than my child? The 4yr old? Do we not allow 4yr olds to take part? Either 4yr olds are sensible enough to do do or not? How ridiculous that school think a few days is s gulf in maturity. But it's the typical catch all attitude of the state system.

pilpiloni · 15/12/2015 19:51

Similarly, no under-fives could include a very disruptive three year old who happens to be tall enough to be taken for a five year old and the parents could lie and says he's five.

A breastfeeding newborn may NOT be able to be left, it's not a choice. Effectively, the school are banning the mother as well. And then people wonder why the breastfeeding rates are so low if this is the kind of support...

BessieBlount · 15/12/2015 19:51

And at the second school that ds2 was at they seemed perfectly able to make the decision that 6day old dd should be admitted despite their no under 5 rule.

MascaraAndConverse89 · 15/12/2015 19:51

Teenagers do babysit my child and all my friends' children, what's the issue there?

It's just the answer to all childcare issues on MN Grin "Find a teenager willing to make a bit of money"

DrCoconut · 15/12/2015 19:52

I haven't read the entire thread but I had a similar issue with a meeting about phonics for DS2 who is 4 and taking DS3 who is now 11 weeks and was 5 weeks at the time. I was told I couldn't take him so had to miss the meeting as he is breastfed and can't be left and anyway I had no childcare. A friend turned herself inside out getting childcare only to find that others turned up with little ones anyway. Anyway, my health visitor and breastfeeding supporter both said that if you are breastfeeding a baby that young it is discrimination to exclude you and if you wanted to make something of it you could. By banning the baby they effectively ban the mother too. It's not cool to cry discrimination I know, but that's what it is.