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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Y1 Teacher Refused to let DS go to the toilet, resulting in sitting in mess all day.

379 replies

FreeSpirit89 · 12/12/2015 10:01

My mum picked DS1 aged 5 up from school Friday afternoon (3.15pm), He was clearly distressed, and upset. When she got him beyond the school gates he told her he had messy pants on. He said he had asked to go to the toilet before first break (10.30am) and the teacher had said no, he couldn't hold it any longer and messed his pants.

The school is aware that DS has bowel problems, they have letters on file from his consultant specialist at the hospital as well as the family GP, and myself explaining that he needs to be able to have access to water at all times, and due to his condition he may not have much warning that he needs to go to the toilet, and it tends to leak out of him fairly quickly.

His bottom was red raw, and little sores have appeared at the top of his bum crack due to being made to sit in his own mess all day. He is quite upset, and doesn't want to go back to school because he thinks it will happen again.

Im planning on approaching the school head about this on Monday, but i am at a loss at how to do so? The head's default reaction to anything where the parent isn't there to witness the incident is that the child may be lying. I want to go prepared and not get to angry, which at the moment i'm struggling with. I just cant believe that they have treated this issue with no sensitivity and ignore my sons pleas for the toilet.

Any idea's how i can get them to listen and ensure this doesn't happen again would be greatly appreciated.

OP posts:
hobnobsaremyfavourite · 12/12/2015 15:19

Yes Hollie I'm glad she doesn't teach my children
I'm the first to defend teachers ffs I married one.
But having had to speak several times to the school about a similar issue surrounding toiletting and being told that they had refused to allow dd to go to toilet and she can home in soiled clothing you can fuck off with your teacher bashing nonsense. There are some things that go beyond just doing as they are to and listening to the teacher which I always tell mine to do it s basic dignity.
Read my post above about sitting in pissy clothes and imagine how foul it was as I can remember it so vividly 35 years later.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2015 15:21

I used to work in care, in a day facility on minimum wage, no way would we leave a client in that condition. We would be in trouble.

IguanaTail · 12/12/2015 15:24

Yes we would ask the parent about that. We would look into it first.

IguanaTail · 12/12/2015 15:25

this attitude that out of hundreds of thousands of teaching staff each one is saintly and beyond reproach.

Who has ever said that????? People are suggesting that the OP asks for more details first - that's all!

hollieberrie · 12/12/2015 15:30

But having had to speak several times to the school about a similar issue surrounding toiletting and being told that they had refused to allow dd to go to toilet and she can home in soiled clothing you can fuck off with your teacher bashing nonsense

Sorry you had such a bad experience with your dd, but we are not talking about that, we are responding to the OP's situation which appears to be a one-off and has not yet been responded to by the school.

No teacher would allow every child to go to the toilet whenever they wanted. If they did they would not be a very good teacher. Yes of course if there are issues then the child should be allowed and this is normally the case. That's why me and the other teachers on this thread are saying that the OP should investigate before blaming the school entirely.

Maybe it was a different teacher, maybe they had been sat in a school Christmas play, we don't know yet. Its still unacceptable of course but mistakes happen. We are so busy and just as human as everyone else. I dont know why that's so hard for people to understand. The vast majority of teachers would never purposefully neglect any child. We do our best but sometimes we forget / don't notice something. This is part of being human. No-one can do everything perfectly all the time.

MindfulBear · 12/12/2015 15:36

appalling OP. absolutely appalling.

Leave your DS at home for a few days (is this an option?) whilst you gather some facts from the class teacher, speak to your GP to obtain a letter of support and then meet with the head.

Of course put your complaint in writing and take your mum or DH to the school with you, both on the fact finding mission and for the meeting with the head. You should expect a verbal and written apology to you and directly to your son, both from the teacher and the head.

Once you are reassured that this will never happen again then you can properly reassure your son about going back to class. Plus time will have helped him get over it. Of course, how the school deal with the complaint and how they discuss it with your DS, how they apologise and how they articulate to him "the plan to prevent this happening again" should also enable him to understand it wont happen again. They should be engaging him, not just you, but with you present.

Poor boy must have been mortified.

For him to develop sores suggests he was in that mess for at least an hour and it could easily have been 5 hours. How did anyone miss it?! Its beyond me.

You must advocate for your son and talk him through how to deal with the situation next time - ie ask once, then go if you need to go whether the teacher has said no or wait. He needs to know you will stand by him should the teacher try to punish him.

I would also send him in with spare clothes and wet wipes in his school bag (a small packet of the wipes so they are not too obvious to his mates, he doesnt want to be victimised - kids can be horridly intolerant to difference).

As for water: All kids should have a water bottle in class, which they should be encouraged to fill up at each break, so drinking water during class should not be an issue. There are plenty of studies showing that a small dip in hydration levels affects performance - both in sport AND in schools. Every school should therefore be encouraging re-fillable water bottles. I would not be happy with DS going to a school that did not do this tbh.

As for going to the toilet - if every class teacher allowed every kid to go to the toilet when they needed to then it would not be a novelty and 1 kid asking to go would not cause a tidal wave of kids wanting to go. It is ridiculous kids cannot go when they need to. Of course older kids should be expected to wait, if they can, but young kids should go when they ask to go - they are still learning fgs.

This irritates me so much. My DB is a Paediatrician and he sees so many patients who end up holding on at school, for a variety of reasons, causing themselves long term issues which he helps them to sort out but the solution is not always very pleasant and always takes at least 6 months.

Any school that told me my 5yo would not be able to go to the toilet when he wanted to would have a complaint filed with them, if that was not resolved I would then complain to the safe guarding officer and if that failed I would change schools.

Tbh given what you have said OP - are you prepared to change schools if the school do not react as one should expect them to? They do not sound particularly responsive to a 5yo's needs, let alone one with an issue that needs bearing in mind.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2015 15:37

Yes of course she should be calm, and find out what happened that resulted in her ds being left in soiled clothes all day. Ensure that this never happens again. If she is still not happy about it, make a formal complaint.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 12/12/2015 15:39

If we are talking facts - the OP has said that her son has developed sores, from being left in his soiled pants - that is a fact. In my opinion as a trained nurse, this means he has been left in his own mess for quite some time - a number of hours - I doubt it happened close to home time.

capsium · 12/12/2015 15:46

I would echo what other posters have said, something undoubtedly has gone very badly wrong. The circumstances of what happened very definitely need to be examined in order to unravel how on earth the OP's ds was put through such an unpleasant ordeal.

For those complaining about 'teacher bashing' surely robust systems need to be put in place to prevent occurrences like this? It is not rocket science, we are talking about young children here, who even at the best of times might not be completely reliable regarding toileting, never mind when they have a condition which can make this more difficult for them...

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2015 15:48

Exactly mindful, it's a basic human right to be able to use the toilet when you need to. These kids are still babies, some have not long been potty trained and are still recognising the signals when to go.

MistyMeena · 12/12/2015 15:48

I was supply teaching a year 1 class where exactly this happened and believe me I noticed within about 5 mins! A quick (discreet) sniff around the room identified child and TA was called to remove child to sort out.

If he has deliberately been left then i would be removing him until I had assurances it would never happen again. Appalling.

Even if there was a misunderstanding/miscommunication it sounds as though the school have a less than caring attitude.

MistyMeena · 12/12/2015 15:50

To clarify, I hadn't refused him a toilet trip!

Llareggub · 12/12/2015 15:56

Can you imagine if this post was written from the perspective of a woman with a father in a nursing home who was refused access to the toilet and sat in his own faeces all day?

hollieberrie · 12/12/2015 15:57

Yes exactly - normally we always notice very quickly. Which is why I'm saying the OP needs to investigate - was it a different teacher? Were the class sat watching a play or something? Did it really happen so early in the day?
It seems very unusual that no one noticed. For the class teacher to be accused of deliberately leaving him in soiled pants is very unfair until the full facts are known.

FreeWorker1 · 12/12/2015 15:58

I would be apoplectic. Forget complaining to the Head, just go straight to the local authority and destroy this teachers career. He/She should never be in charge of children.

My DS would not be going back to the school on Monday. Its nearly Xmas he will not miss anything useful.

Get a doctors letter and raise the complaint at the highest level. An MPs letter to the local authority would be useful.

I fully expect the school to say the 'teacher didn't know'. That answer is neglect because given his medical notes they should have been vigilant and in any case what about the smell?

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2015 15:59

Exactly llegrub same thing. Oh he is old, he might be confused.

TimeToMuskUp · 12/12/2015 15:59

I'm confused that he was allowed to just stay in his own soiled underpants for such a length of time. I work in a Reception class and we've had incidents where accidents have happened; they're so very young and sometimes sore tummies just won't wait, but there's no way you wouldn't smell it, or that the other children wouldn't smell it. And if you smelled it, you'd get someone to cover while you helped them get cleaned up and make sure they knew damn well it isn't a big deal and that there is no problem at all.

In your shoes I'd be determined to find out exactly what happened and why. They have a duty of care to him at all times, allowing him to become sore and distressed is (I would imagine) a form of neglect. I'd be very determined that they got to the bottom of it, and would consider keeping him off til his soreness was totally gone, poor lamb.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 12/12/2015 15:59

My friends dd who is just 10 was not allowed to go to toilet in school recently. When the lesson ended she was saturated not in urine but in blood as her period had started. Angry the teacher was adamant that she should have gone at playtime!!! Far from isolated incidents are they as so many on this thread and others have to similar stories.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2015 16:03

I still remember the humiliation if being refused tge toilet at 6 and soiling myself, and having to go to the welfare office to be cleaned up. I as cleaned up and spares put on me, poor op ds sitting in stinking dirty clothes all day. He must have been uncomfortable. The smell, I don't know how the teacher coukd miss it, it permeates your nostrils much stronger than sweaty bodies. And gets stronger as time progresses.

thelouise · 12/12/2015 16:03

It doesn't matter if he asked or not, the fact that he sat in soiled clothes, enough to get sores is disgusting.

StrumpersPlunkett · 12/12/2015 16:08

I work in a year 1 class. The smell of a child having an accident is not ignorable. If the teacher didn't notice the t/a should have.
Your poor son. I hope you get it sorted.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2015 16:10

Ds is potty training at the moment, if he has a poo accident especially a runny one, is smells like a blooming sewer. How staff could not notice it, beggars belief.

FreeWorker1 · 12/12/2015 16:15

Teachers are not angels. They are like anybody else. Some are rubbish at their jobs and quite frankly some are dangerous and should not be allowed near children.

I had a primary school teacher who controlled us by physically hurting us in ways that could not be detected. I wont go into the stuff that went on at my boarding school after age 11.

WoodHeaven · 12/12/2015 16:18

dc2 has been suffereing from chronic constipation and regularly had some issues with soiling at that age.

This what his lovely Y1 teacher did:

  • take him to the toilet whenever needed.
  • take him to the shower when it was really bad
  • ask his db to go with him (when dc2 was denying any issue at all)
  • she never ever made him feel there was something wrong about him or that he was a nuisance.

This is what his Reception year teacher did:

  • Refuse to let him go to the loo
  • refused to help him when he needed help cleaning himself
  • probably told him off too
  • all of which resulted in him never wanting to say he had had an aciident
We changed schools (Hence the lovely teacher the following year)
Pud2 · 12/12/2015 16:18

As a teacher, I'm with you Hollie and Miss Clarke. There is no way that this child would have intentionally been made to sit in soiled clothes all day. As you say Hollie, it's very easy for non-teachers to get all hyped up and make all sorts of suggestions about what to do and who to complain to. I hope the OP is able to remain calm and go into school to find out the facts before deciding what to do. The school will need to investigate to find out what really happened. Whoever suggested keeping him off school - not a solution. You would just incur unauthorised absences.

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