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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Y1 Teacher Refused to let DS go to the toilet, resulting in sitting in mess all day.

379 replies

FreeSpirit89 · 12/12/2015 10:01

My mum picked DS1 aged 5 up from school Friday afternoon (3.15pm), He was clearly distressed, and upset. When she got him beyond the school gates he told her he had messy pants on. He said he had asked to go to the toilet before first break (10.30am) and the teacher had said no, he couldn't hold it any longer and messed his pants.

The school is aware that DS has bowel problems, they have letters on file from his consultant specialist at the hospital as well as the family GP, and myself explaining that he needs to be able to have access to water at all times, and due to his condition he may not have much warning that he needs to go to the toilet, and it tends to leak out of him fairly quickly.

His bottom was red raw, and little sores have appeared at the top of his bum crack due to being made to sit in his own mess all day. He is quite upset, and doesn't want to go back to school because he thinks it will happen again.

Im planning on approaching the school head about this on Monday, but i am at a loss at how to do so? The head's default reaction to anything where the parent isn't there to witness the incident is that the child may be lying. I want to go prepared and not get to angry, which at the moment i'm struggling with. I just cant believe that they have treated this issue with no sensitivity and ignore my sons pleas for the toilet.

Any idea's how i can get them to listen and ensure this doesn't happen again would be greatly appreciated.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2015 12:27

Whatever happened, ds should never ever have come home from school in that condition. Op has said that teacher refused him the toilet when he asked, this should not have happened. Yes I would be absolutely livid, and would want to know what happened, ensure that this never happened again, whilst looking for another school for ds.

spillyobeans · 12/12/2015 12:30

I cant believe this happened this is awful! I would being going straight to the teacher and asking her wtf she was thinking.

RubbleBubble00 · 12/12/2015 12:34

I think Finola has the best advice. Stay calm, find out exactly what happened then your in the position to make a complaint as appropriate.

I can't imagine any teacher knowingly leaving a child who messed themselves - get the facts thenyou can make an informed complaint.

EveryoneAnon · 12/12/2015 12:38

Wow, poor you. My 5 year old son has the same but urine not faeces. That was bad enough.

He's the quiet, well-behaved one and so goes unnoticed, but he tells me he teacher had said nobody else can go to the toilet after Rosie, so he put his hand down and tried desperately to hold it in. I still feel angry about it now Angry

sodonewithit · 12/12/2015 12:45

This has made me so angry on your behalf. sorry not very helpful I know but your poor SC. I hope the school treats this as seriously as it should be.

MissClarke86 · 12/12/2015 12:47

This is tricky. I'm a teacher and once you let one child go to the toilet, the other 29 want to go because they want to get out of the lesson. That's why children are asked to go at play times (which are around every hour or so) and often told no during lessons. If a child asks twice or is visibly desperate, they are allowed to go.

The key thing here is that he has a pre diagnosed condition which his teacher should be aware of, which should mean he is always allowed to go. It may not have been his usual teacher that he asked.

The other issue is that some children are too shy to make it clear they are desperate, and once another child has been told no (likely because the teacher knows that child doesn't actually need it!) they presume that applies to them as well.

Poor little soul. I feel for him but I don't think the teacher will have meant any deliberate harm. It need to be made clear to all staff involved with him that he should be allowed to go.

EveryoneAnon · 12/12/2015 13:13

*Missclarke
*
The point is just as much that the child is only 5 years old. Some will have only been potty trained for 2 years and not all 4 year olds are even potty trained at night yet. They're just babies. Secondary school year 11 maybe, but not year 1.

My DS is so absent minded he would need reminding to go to toilet in break time. But he is only five years old!!!!

Bluebell20 · 12/12/2015 13:16

This sounds awful.

I teach children of that age, and I always let them go to the toilet - unless I am finishing teaching or explaining something, in which case I ask them if they think they can hang on for two minutes. If a child has a medical condition I never, ever ask them to wait.

However, and I am just playing devil's advocate here, is it possible your son actually did not ask to go to the toilet but soiled himself, and is embarrassed about it so claimed that the teacher hadn't let him go?

I only mention this because I had a 5 year old claim something quite similar about me! She had wet herself during the afternoon and hadn't told me. When she went home she told her mum that I told her 'to let the air dry it'!! I never said anything of the sort! And had I known she was wet, I would have changed her! But she was embarrassed and shifting the blame onto me, which I can understand. Fortunately mum believed me.

That said, not sure how someone could miss the smell of poo if it happened that early in the day. Even if I don't notice as a teacher immediately, the other kids are pretty quick to let me know if they think someone has done a poo!

I really hope you get to the bottom of this.

Lamaitresse · 12/12/2015 13:17

Ah poor little boy Sad That is disgraceful and neglectful. I'm a TA in a kindergarten class, and we will ALWAYS let a child go to the toilet. They are so little for goodness sake, how can you do anything else? The children that we know have a problem holding it in are actively encouraged at every opportunity to go to the loo. I can't believe that the teacher wouldn't let him go Angry
As far as letting him sit in his own mess all day, it is totally unacceptable. The poor little mite. In my experience even if a child says nothing about having had an 'accident' it's impossible to miss from the smell. I'd be interested to know exactly what reason the teacher gives for having missed this.
Good luck when you talk to them.

thelouise · 12/12/2015 13:18

MissClarke

"It may not have been his usual teacher that he asked." Inexcusable. It should have been handed over.

"Cnce you let one child go to the toilet, the other 29 want to go because they want to get out of the lesson." Hmm He has a medical condition. The teacher needs to think outside the box when explaining to other children about why some children are different.

diddl · 12/12/2015 13:22

"It may not have been his usual teacher that he asked."

Even if this were so, why wouldn't she know that he needs to be allowed to go to the toilet?

diddl · 12/12/2015 13:25

"This is tricky."

No, it absolutely isn't!

There are letters saying that he has a condition & needs to be allowed to get to the toilet quickly.

diddl · 12/12/2015 13:30

In fact I think that he should be allowed to just tell the teacher that he needs the toilet & go.

How the teacher handles the rest of the class is her problem!

EponasWildDaughter · 12/12/2015 13:38

TA in yr 1 and 2 for 8 years here and i would always let a child go to the toilet too.

Just for info, you can always see when George really needs the loo or has just spotted Fred being allowed to go and just fancies going along too. It's easy to deal with - just tell George yes, of course he can go. In 2 minutes. As soon as Fred gets back.

(Then you keep a close eye on George till Fred gets back just in case he becomes desperate (or actually even needed to go at all) and then remind him. The 'one at a time' thing means everyone who needs the loo gets to, but there's no mass exodus!)

Original poster
FreeSpirit89 · 12/12/2015 13:53

Thank you for all your kind replies. I haven't got through all of them as im currently at work. I will read them this evening a few more points to add.

DS toilet is in his class room. Each class room has there own inbuilt toilet so it isn't a case of no teacher being available to walk him to a separate part of the school. It's a stone throws away from the desk he sits at.

I have taken photos of his bottom, just in case it needs to go further and I will contact the LEA on Monday too.

I know the school will attempt to blame DS but I also know he is happy to ask when needed. Like with the Childminder. I know the class teacher will deny all knowledge and the head will say something about over active imaginations that kids have. But imaginations don't cause sores.

I intend to move him, we've had problems with them before its waiting for a space to come up. I can't just pull him out because I don't want him to fall behind and I work. I feel like I'm stuck.

OP posts:
MissClarke86 · 12/12/2015 14:01

"Once you let one child go to the toilet, the other 29 want to go because they want to get out of the lesson." hmm He has a medical condition. The teacher needs to think outside the box when explaining to other children about why some children are different.

I was referring to a situation with normal children. In the same post I said he of course should have been allowed to go as he has a bowel issue. Don't fail to read all of my post and then make me sound like a witch.

I've worked in different schools, always within KS1. Every member of staff I've worked with will only let children go to the loo in lessons if they have a condition or are clearly desperate. 99.99% of the time they aren't so I was just explaining this dilemma that teachers have. 5 children all going to the loo within a lesson, is 5 lots of repeated explaining of a task and takes a lot of time out of actually teaching. Teachers have to make judgement calls and unfortunately sometimes these will be wrong.

This situation should be different as he has a bowel condition.

Yes the message should have been passed over, but unfortunately in a job where you have 30 small people all with their own issues to pass over, sometimes things get missed. It doesn't make it okay, but it doesn't mean his teacher is a horrible person. She may even have been off ill and not been able to communicate with the other member of staff.

The OP needs to go in calmly but firmly, and ensure that procedures are in place (eg medical notes in the register which would avoid the need for word of mouth).

I just hate how people jump to the conclusion that a teacher just be neglectful and horrid. Nobody would be in this job if they were like that, it's too damn tough. Mistakes, whether forgivable or not, do happen and not always as a result of nastiness.

cheethaz · 12/12/2015 14:10

for what it's worth: my son has similar issues and when we was soiling himself repeatedly in reception, the staff were amazing. A management plan was put in place whereby the TA took him to the loo every half hour whether he needed to go or not. They gradually extended the time and have always helped him to clean himself up and given him fresh clothes when accidents did happen. They usually only happened because my son didn't ask to go on time. We've had a few slips w lunchtime/playground staff but overall they are very supportive with a difficult problem.

Nanny0gg · 12/12/2015 14:13

've worked in different schools, always within KS1. Every member of staff I've worked with will only let children go to the loo in lessons if they have a condition or are clearly desperate.

I'm glad my school didn't take that attitude.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 12/12/2015 14:14

That's so awful, your poor DS!

I would go in with the photos on Monday, speak to the teacher in question first and ask her to explain her refusal to allow your child with issues to go to the toilet that is within the classroom? Then, depending on her reaction, take it up to the Head. He can't possibly say that it's your child lying, when there is physical evidence that the child has been left in his own poo for hours.

I suppose they could try to say that your son didn't ask to go, but you say he has no issues with asking?

As for the skin integrity thing - it wouldn't take that long to induce the skin sores where poo is concerned, and it sounds like the OP's Ds was sitting in messy pants for over 3 hours. Plenty of time to induce blistering :(

EveryoneAnon · 12/12/2015 14:15

Yeah. Seems cruel with 5 yr olds.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2015 14:20

Op has said she has issues with school and will be moving him, quite rightly. missclarke, it's one thing that op ds had an accident, but to be in soiled garments all day is not acceptable. Op, did your ds not tell a teacher he had an accident?

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 12/12/2015 14:20

I still remember the shame of sitting in sodden clothes at a pantomime as a child as my teacher had told me I would not be allowed to go to the toilet Angry I have a diagnosis of an unstable bladder and take regular mess. I still hate that bullying cow.
Sadly a lot of this shitty attitude persists and with 2 children with a similar issue we have had to speak to school staff several times and have had to resort to a letter from a consuant paediatrician in one case.
In what universe is that right??
FFS kids pissing and shitting themselves or spending their lessons worried sick they will have an accident like my 23 year old is a fucking disgrace.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 12/12/2015 14:21

13 not 23 fucking iPhone Hmm

MissClarke86 · 12/12/2015 14:22

Nanny0gg Why let them go if they don't need it and waste learning time? I don't see how it's cruel only letting them go if they really need to.
Otherwise they use it as a constant excuse to get out of lessons. It's very obvious when you know your children who should be allowed to go and who is using it as an excuse. You'd be a complete walkover to let every child that asked go, and they'd miss so much learning.

Completely different in OPs situation, as I've said.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 12/12/2015 14:23

How the fuck do you know if they "really need it"
Fuck that sort of attitude makes me so angry.

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