Y1 Teacher Refused to let DS go to the toilet, resulting in sitting in mess all day.

[FreeSpirit89]

My mum picked DS1 aged 5 up from school Friday afternoon (3.15pm), He was clearly distressed, and upset. When she got him beyond the school gates he told her he had messy pants on. He said he had asked to go to the toilet before first break (10.30am) and the teacher had said no, he couldn't hold it any longer and messed his pants.

The school is aware that DS has bowel problems, they have letters on file from his consultant specialist at the hospital as well as the family GP, and myself explaining that he needs to be able to have access to water at all times, and due to his condition he may not have much warning that he needs to go to the toilet, and it tends to leak out of him fairly quickly.

His bottom was red raw, and little sores have appeared at the top of his bum crack due to being made to sit in his own mess all day. He is quite upset, and doesn't want to go back to school because he thinks it will happen again.

Im planning on approaching the school head about this on Monday, but i am at a loss at how to do so? The head's default reaction to anything where the parent isn't there to witness the incident is that the child may be lying. I want to go prepared and not get to angry, which at the moment i'm struggling with. I just cant believe that they have treated this issue with no sensitivity and ignore my sons pleas for the toilet.

Any idea's how i can get them to listen and ensure this doesn't happen again would be greatly appreciated.

Og wo our knowledge, his bowels issues were actually specified on his records as having a disability.....

Pud maybe not intentionally. BUT she knows this child has bowels issues. She knows he soils himself.
As pp have said, at some point, she should have had a smell (even if not all the time, dc2 wasn't always very 'smelly' if he soiled himself) and then taken the hint.

A MUCH BIGGER issue imo is the fact that this little child doesn't dare going to see her when he has a problem :(:(

freeworker, I too would be upset, but don't you think the op should at least talk to the school before jumping in with a complaint to the lea? We have no idea what this school is like do we? They might brush it off and blame the DS, or they might be extremely apologetic and make an action plan for what happens going forward. This teacher could be horrible, but the likelihood is she/he isn't, they too may be apologetic.

Please talk to the school first op, although it does sound like you have a free other issues with them already. Most schools want to help and put things right.

There is no reason other than failure in duty of care for a DC to sit in soiled pants at school.

Issues must be bad for op wanting to move schools, this must be part of them failing her ds, Mabey in other areas.

I agree bobo, whatever their reasons, intentional or not, the school failed ds in their duty of care towards him that day.

Owlinatree - my experience of schools is they often try and deflect blame. They lie. They try to blame he children. They act in vile ways. Look at the way the NHS cover ups have happened. Its a public sector culture.

I have friends who are teachers. Really close friends. They tell me stuff that happens. If you go in soft with a complaint they take the mick.

Go in hard and you get results. The LEA will sack the teacher if they think there is a legal case coming.

Of course they are going to blame DS 'for not asking'. Look at all the stories on this thread. Some teacher hate kids and they know exactly how to manipulate situations to make parents doubt their children.

You fail to care for my children. I will destroy your career.

Even if he didn't ask to go to the toilet, there still needs a way for him to be able to quickly & easily tell the teacher what has happened.

MindfulBear
"As for going to the toilet - if every class teacher allowed every kid to go to the toilet when they needed to then it would not be a novelty and 1 kid asking to go would not cause a tidal wave of kids wanting to go. It is ridiculous kids cannot go when they need to. Of course older kids should be expected to wait, if they can, but young kids should go when they ask to go - they are still learning fgs. "

That's a load of rubbish. It's not that it's a novelty, it's because they know they can go and have a break in the loo. They'd do it every time they fancied a break. It is not ridiculous - in year 1 they are 5 and 6 and unless they genuinely have a medical issue, are absolutely capable of holding it for 15 minutes or so. It's rarely more than this because it would generally be the teaching on the carpet session that they're asked to hold it for. I say "can you wait until we've finished on the carpet?" and usually they say yes. If they're desperate they say no and I let them go. If they still need it they ask again when we move to tables (they know this is the system) which is when I let them go. At that point most of them don't mention it again because they never really needed it! And it also means they slip off to the toilet without everyone else noticing and wanting to go to, because it's during a time of movement.

You need to trust that systems are in place for a reason. It is not a nursery setting which has free flow play, and children going in and out to the toilet when they don't really need it IS disturbing for learning. They would miss out on chunks of teaching and have no idea what to do when they went to their table to work. Holding it for a while is possible, and necessary if you want them to learn anything!

I agree that if he had been sitting in mess all day, someone would have noticed. Let's say the class teacher is as evil as people are saying - is the TA evil too? And the other staff on duty? And the lunch time staff? Someone would have noticed, so it's highly unlikely he was sat like that for long.

All that needs to happen here is conversation to try and find out what happened (respectfully on both sides!) and perhaps requesting a more robust system be put in place for his toiletting.

As for funding for an extra TA - you are living on another planet. A child has to have high level needs to be given 1:1 support of any kind. The government are very tight with funding on this. His bowel condition sounds like it can be managed perfectly well with good communication, which needs clarifying.

missclarke no a child with a bad tummy cannot hold it for 15 mins, I am a grown adult, when I have a funny tummy I need to go to the loo pretty damn quickly. I don't think the op will trust the 'systems' after this, on that day, they failed her ds badly.

FreeWorker1 You sound like a delightful lady and a massive victim of the media bashing on public sector workers. Stop believing everything you hear.

Try reporting your friends who are clearly not in the right careers, not judging the rest of us. The majority of us work very hard and love the children in our care. It is not a job you can stay in, mentally, physically or financially unless you enjoy the children. They are the only good bit about it!!

The LEA will not sack the teacher. The headteacher will investigate and get back to the parent, if an apology is needed it will be given and procedures will be changed. If it is genuinely serous, the LEA will conduct an independent review.

You are being absolutely ridiculous to want to destroy someone's career over something that could be explained. You vile, vile woman.

You sound like an absolutely horrid parent, and with that attitude would likely quite quickly be handed a transfer form...

There is no reason other than failure in duty of care for a DC to sit in soiled pants at school.

Do you want us to spend all our time just walking around the classroom sniffing the children to check that no-one has had an accident 2 minutes previously?

As soon as we notice, we change them! But yes, if they are not confident enough to tell us then they might sit there for a (hopefully) short while before someone notices. We cannot guarantee that this is 30 seconds after the accident has happened! There are 2 adults and 30 kids. We are also trying to teach, assess, work with intervention groups, support SEN, support EAL, deal with friendship issues, clean up cut knees etc etc.

The best way to avoid this is to talk to your child about the importance of telling an adult straight away if they have had an accident.

Obviously in this case something has gone wrong IF the child did indeed spend the whole day in soiled pants. That's why the OP needs to talk to the school.

You fail to care for my children. I will destroy your career. Nice attitude there Freeworker Your posts are laughable. No lone parent could ever destroy a teacher's career. It doesnt work like that.

Aeroflotgirl A child with a dodgy tummy would be allowed to go. Simple. 99% of the time they don't have dodgy tummies or bowel conditions.

freeworker and all you say may be true. But she needs to talk to the school first.

I forget sometimes that I work in a lovely school where the staff care greatly for the children. Mistakes are made on occasion, (not specifically this mistake), but most staff are glad to be told if something has gone wrong and have the opportunity to do something about it.

I'm sorry your schools have not been so positive.

mrsclark schools have their own budget, my dd who has now been dx with ASD, was unstatemented in Foundation, was finding school hard, school paid for a 121 for her out of their budget, she entually got a statement when it was discovered that mainstream was not right for her.

I Wasent missclarke, nor was op ds with a bowel condition known to the school!

As I result I soiled at school.

Really hand??

Yes but schools will only spend that much on 1:1 if it's absolutely necessary, which it may have been with your DS but wouldn't be for a child who just needs to be able to go to the toilet when he asks.

I'm sorry you went through that Aeroflotgirl, but we mustn't always jump to conclusions that everyone is the same.

Or the school have failed in their duty of care handin

in year 1 they are 5 and 6 and unless they genuinely have a medical issue, are absolutely capable of holding it for 15 minutes or so
Yep that's why the school has all the info from the paed and should ALREADY have a very strong system in place to deal with it. It's not something new that no one knew about. It's something that has been flagged up and should have been dealt with already.

But yes, if they are not confident enough to tell us then they might sit there for a (hopefully) short while before someone notices.
As I said, my experience with dc2 is that he would have sat in soiled pants all day rather than tell a teacher. So yes him not getting a very sore bottom had to rely on his teacher/TA noticing.
Strangely enough, the first school he was at, neither the teacher, nor the TA seemed able to noticed any of that whereas at the other school, they always knew.
From that, I would gather that some schools are happy for teachers to deal with that (so both teachers are TA will be careful and aware) whereas some schools just aren't (so even if they do notice, they'll leave it unless the child says something).
That school has a HT that is clearly on the side of 'Don't want to know. parents are wrong and I will impose my pov'.

missclarke I was cleaned up and changed by a welfare officer at school. Of course there are wonderful teachers and schools, my other DC goes to a wonderful mainstream school, staff are so caring, I cannot imagine this happening to him.

Missclark - I am a man. My children go to private school. Some teachers are outstanding, amazing and have my fullest support, I am in awe of what they do. I coudl not do the job although I have taught adults. Some teachers are average and doing a decent job. Some are vile and a danger to children.

Some people simply should not be in a teaching and only do it because they couldn't do anything else. I am sure you are lovely teacher but not every teacher is. Its the failure of teachers to report bad teachers that allows them to carry on for years in a profession they should not be in.

We all have bad colleagues. I work in business. You mess up in my profession. You don't work again.

hand how do you explain the sore and cracked botton then? How do you explain the soiled panst (which would have been obvious) or the dirty bottom (again obvious to see by the parent).

Thsi is not a case when you have to rely on what the child says. It's there.
It's a 5yo who soiled himself because of a medical condition. He stayed in soiled panst (as per the pants coming back home) for long enough to have a sore, cracked bottom (again as seen by the parents).
Whether it happened at 10.30 as the child said or at 12.00 doesn't matter. It was long enough to cause distress (again as seen by the parent when the child went back home) and injury to the child.