New nursery expects all potential pupils be potty trained, even the 2 year olds.

[FundraisingPTABitch]

That's it really. I'm new to this part of town, and so is this nursery.

When I enquired with the admin about this policy, they said every potential pupil must be potty trained.

AIBU to think this nursery can just fuck off? I will potty train my little child when both the child and I are both ready.

Ludicrous. Irresponsible! Elitist!

Kewcumber surely if your boy was less than three, then he was two?

Personally, I just think late potty training is unescessary and a complete waste of resources. It's up there with bottled water and driving your kid to school instead of walking ten minutes.

And younger Mums have been completely sold the lie that potty training under three is impossible and somehow cruel.

Well I feel crap now! We've been trying to train DS for months, and we're not getting anywhere. He doesn't get it at all. He's 3 in three weeks. How do I force it if he wont do it? He made himself ill last week because he got so stressed by it that he held on to his poo for four days.

Clearly I've spectacularly failed at parenting and am being hoodwinked by pampers...

I don't care when parents potty train, as long as obviously they do. But the average age has risen.

In the 80's I worked in both a nursery and a special needs support group. In the latter a lot of children wore nappies whatever their age. In the nursery, no children did. I don't even remember wiping bottoms or helping children in the nursery. Children went to the toilet on their own. The only thing I remember was going in periodically to the toilets to flush them, to wipe up spillages in the boys, and to remind children who were jiggling about that they needed to go to the toilet.

I actually remember the average age rising as parents advised each other to wait until their child was ready. I remember hearing parents saying that it was much easier and quicker if you waited until they were older. Whereas toilet training at a younger age took more work. There is nothing virtuous in children being toilet trained younger, it is just a fact though that they were.

www.pottytrainingconcepts.com/A-History-of-Potty-Training.html

In the nursery, no children did. I don't even remember wiping bottoms or helping children in the nursery.

Probably becuase all the SN children were over in the special needs group....

Also those figures are for the US, the NHS has adviced potty training between 2 and 3 years since the 70's.

There's still a strong impetus to have children toilet-trained by 2 in Australia too. I have one friend who had her son out of nappies just before his 2nd birthday - but he was in no way "trained", she had to carry 4-5 changes of clothes with her wherever she went because he just wet himself half the time. But he was out of nappies so therefore was "trained"

DS1 was just under 3 when he started insisting on using the toilet for poo, but 3.10 before he had any concept of when he was going to wee and could come out of nappies. Since then, he's had very few accidents and almost never wet the bed (Only times were when he failed to go to the loo last thing at night, has happened 3 times tops in 5 years)

DS2 is just 3 now and is still in nappies. He will only sit on the loo when he actually needs to do something AND he has no nappy on. So he doesn't ask for the loo, he says no if you ask him if he needs the loo, and if he doesn't need the loo when his nappy is being changed he will not sit on it. But the times his nappy is off and he suddenly needs to go - he will happily sit on the loo. As we're coming into summer now, I could just take his nappy off while he's at home and see what happens... but only if he's happy with that idea.

Added to what i said above over the last 15 years nursery now starts at 2 years instead of 3 and school at 4 instead of 5.
Schools also could refuse to take the unpotty train children in the past, you had less children with SN in mainstream...

All of this skews figures, these kids were kept out of sight.

In the SN group, there were only children with obvious SN. Downs Syndrome, cerebral palsy, non verbal autistic children.
Of course there were probably children who were not toilet trained and stayed at home, but I don't think it was common.

Nobody is saying you should have children potty trained at 2 years old. But it is equally wrong to say no child can be potty trained at 2 years od.

What does potty training have to do with sleeping through the night? A previous poster seemed to connect these events, and I'm wondering why.

I think that shows a lack of knowledge about child development and not only would I not send my dcs there id be making enquiries with the local authority and Ofsted as its just not a developmentally appropriate expectation at all!

I believe that the majority of children are easily trainable by the age of three even if they have the occasional accident. In the past nurseries and parents were prepared to accept the occasional accident. (Ie once a week, not four to five times a day.)

There is a small number of children whose development is delayed and simply not ready to be toilet trained at three. However a lot of lazy parents with developmentally normal children just can't be arsed. Unlike our parents, we don't have the unpleasant job of washing cloth nappies. Or having two parents working full time and having a child care provider who can't be arsed.

I find it hard to believe that there are many NT children in nappies at almost four years old. In my area most children are toilet trained between two and half and three.

I would seek further advice on this matter.

LastAnni I would speculate the sleeping issue could go two ways; the child wakes from discomfort or sleeps so soundly they don't feel the urge to get up and pee mid night.
Either way a wiggling oneself awake or waking from a wet diaper disrupt the parents sleep.

They don't want 2 year olds I reckon OP.

We had the reverse at DS's nursery - we got no support whatsoever when we did want to potty train him at 2.5 years. Turned out the nursery didn't want 3 year olds. They didn't want to deal with potty training. They had enough kids on the wait list not to bother. I phoned Ofsted who told me the nursery had to support us with it and relayed the info to the head who grudgingly agreed but we ended up moving DS to another nursery anyway.

Ds1 was 3 yrs 2 months before reliably dry no special needs ds2 has asd and learning disabilities and is five and a half and in nappies we are just starting toilet training now heavily supported by the disability team and his special school we would have been buggered by this.

Living in France where kids start maternelle (which is effectively nursery school) at two and a half. They have to be dry - though they do spend much of the day taking them backwards and forwards to the toilet to avoid accidents (ie kids don't particularly need to be able to remember to ask to go). Most people I know trained at the last minute in time for this and then that is reinforced by seeing all their little friends going to the the loos once they get there. You have to provide a change of clothes so they do expect the odd accident, but essentially everyone is trained by this age. I agree with tinklylittlelaugh.

My kids wore disposables, that didn't stop me toilet training them at 2. My eldest was completely dry and clean during the day before his 2nd birthday. My 2nd was had developmental delay and was about 6 months older, he never had a single accident. Again, this was considered normal then. It would never have occurred to me to wait for longer. I knew several babies who were out of nappies much younger than that.
Did come a cropper with my 3rd child who is severely autistic. It took us 6 years, from 4-10 for her to become completely continent.
My friend had the opposite experience with a nursery though. Her son was potty trained at 2 , she sent him in dressed in underpants and they would put a pullup on him 'just in case' whereas he didn't need them at home.

Wrong, illegal, discriminatory etc. Please report it to ofsted.

DD1 was nearly 4 when she was trained (I tried everything was not SN just stubborn and a bit of a late developer). DD2 on the other hand was dry day and night just after she turned 2. They are all different and if you have a child like my DD2 and no late developers it is easy to say why can't all children be like that but even in the olden days when all children were trained a bit younger I think my eldest would have just had a lot of accidents until age 4.

I think the nursery are being a bit unreasonable.

out2pasture at six weeks old? Really? The PP above stated her children were sleeping through the night in their own rooms by six weeks, and I'd love to hear how this connected to them toilet training by two.
FWIW my DS wasn't out of nappies til he was four. He just wasn't interested at all before then. I couldn't have been less bothered. When he was ready he just went from nappies to underpants instantly and has never had a single accident. Couldn't have been less stressful and I'm so glad I never tried to 'train' him.

then they are not really trained are they Lillian if the staff spend all their time taking them backwards and forwards to the toilet thats toilet timing not training and as the parent of a special needs child i dont buy this oh parents are lazy these days they just dont want to be bothered by toilet training trust me its not fun changing the nappies of an older child i dont do it because its 'easier'

nokidshere it's nothing to do with rose tinted glasses. How rude.
Not sure what children you worked with, but that simply isn't true.

I have to laugh when people whose dc trained easily by 2 think it is to do with them and their parenting - not that they just happened to have a child who was ready and not all are. Many dc who were/are 'toilet trained' at 2 are no such thing - they are toilet timed. That was often the case 20 years ago. If a nursery is sending them to the toilet repeatedly they may not have accidents but neither are they trained (and if they are sent too frequently can set them up with bad bladder habits for life). My ds was toilet timed for over a year before he was toilet trained. The nursery sent him to the toilet mid-morning and he only had one accident when he was there - but he was not trained.

I would say they are in training. They are out of nappies and the school is only doing what a toilet training parent would do - reminding them to go to the loo. The point is the parents have done the ground work - which requires more or less effort depending on the child. I'm not making any comments on those with special needs - obviously that is a different matter altogether. In France a child who is not toilet trained would start maternelle a year later or even two years later. I can totally understand why a nursery might specify that kids must be toilet trained - it's one thing lining them up, taking them to the toilet and making sure they wash their hands and and entirely different thing attending to children as and when a nappy needs changing.

DS1 wasn't potty trained at 3, he just wouldn't co operate at all. It doesn't mean anything, he went on to do PPE at Oxford.