New nursery expects all potential pupils be potty trained, even the 2 year olds.

[FundraisingPTABitch]

That's it really. I'm new to this part of town, and so is this nursery.

When I enquired with the admin about this policy, they said every potential pupil must be potty trained.

AIBU to think this nursery can just fuck off? I will potty train my little child when both the child and I are both ready.

Ludicrous. Irresponsible! Elitist!

Exactly teacher, child has to be physically ready too. Same with potty training, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. When the child is physically, emotionally and cognitively ready, they will do it, like walking and talking, no different. You cannot make a child talk, if they are not physically or cognitively able to, yes ds 3 I am looking at you. Since starting his school attached nursery, he is really coming on with his development.

The dry at night thing could also be skewed by parents waking dc up to use the toilet my sister did with her dc I didn't with ds1 and he was generally dry through the night at just over 4 .

Two of my siblings were not dry at night till they were 8 or 9 (in the 1970's). I don't think my mum would have told anyone this.

Maybe EC babies just develop a huge bladder capacity then and do produce urine at the same rate all night? DD did always have massive early morning pees. She didn't use the toilet in the night, even though she was still waking to feed.

Clearly it is about more than just physical or cognitive ability when it comes to daytime PT. DD wasn't able to tell us when she needed a poo at 15 months because she's some kind of PT super-genius, she was able to because she was used to doing poos on the potty and knew what it felt like, and presumably didn't like the feeling of doing them in her nappy or had picked up that we didn't like it. I guess the walking analogy is if you never put them down on a floor till they're 3, they are likely to learn to walk later than if you do so from birth.

"they are likely to learn to walk later than if you do so from birth" .. but equally, if they have some physical reason why they might have difficulty with walking, then no amount of putting them down on the floor to do so is going to help.

Apologies - although we managed to shield DS from the majority of the social consequences of bedwetting, he was still made to feel lazy, stupid, babyish and ashamed (and we were made to feel poor and lazy parents) by thoughtless remarks from others - both adults outside the family and other children. He was, in all other respects, intellectually and physically extremely advanced for his age, and goodness knows we as parents and he as a child did absolutely everything that we could to make it work.

(If we had only had DD, I too would be in the 'potty training by 2 and night-time dryness are easy' camp. It is always salutary to be reminded that many things our children achieve are absolutely NOTHING to do with what we do as parents, and everything to do with what our children would have done / been able to do anyway!)

Clearly it is about more than just physical or cognitive ability when it comes to daytime PT.

Fine you got me, I and all the medical personnel in the world have made it up. Your daughter hasn't just developed the senses a few months early than the average, it's genuinely a case of all children being identical to her and everyone else just never bothering.

Oh absolutely, I understand some children just can't, until 3 or 5 or 10. And totally agree that nurseries shouldn't (and I don't think they can) insist. Just when people say wait till they are physically/mentally ready, they often mean wait till they up and ask for it, or show some mysterious "signs", and then start trying, at the age of 2 or 3 or 4.

I think EC shows that many, not all, children can learn a lot quicker than this if you just get on with it at a much younger age. So not surprised that in the old days when they did just start young (and even if they didn't, cloth nappies made the babies a lot more aware of when they were wetting) the average age of training was younger.
Or our lazy hybrid version of EC where we just popped baby on the potty at our convenience - suspect that may be more like old fashioned early training than the ditch the nappies and watch baby like a hawk at all times type EC.

I'm 100% certain DD wouldn't have been demanding the potty for a poo before she could even talk if we had just waited and watched for signs. The night thing I'm not so sure about, but it's a big coincidence and compounded with enough anecdotal evidence I'd like to know if there's proper data relating EC and night dryness.

Pirate, that's not it at all. I don't give a flying damn when everyone else wants to potty train. You're happy, you're kid's happy, great. Just saying that if everyone started PT from before 1, on average kids would be dry earlier. There's plenty of evidence for that if you look at countries where infant potty training is the norm today never mind past. Can I say again in case anyone missed it, on average. No judgement on people who don't want to or children who can't.

Gah, your kid.

Catkind, the link I referred to earlier (which is good because it links to original papers if you want to follow those up) stated that bedwetting rates are similar across the world - South Africa, Taiwan, Iran. From that I would tend to infer that culturally-different approaches to daytime dryness don't seem to influence the incidence of bedwetting.

I think it also depends how you define things,though.

To me, 'potty trained' means:

• Knows when they need to go
• communicates to an adult if needed (e.g. if potty or toilet inaccessible to them, or if in a group situation)
• can get themselves to the potty or toilet
• can manage their clothes independently before and after if sensibly dressed
• can do this in almost all circumstances - not just at home, but out and about, in group care / education etc.

Others may have a different definition - for example the single step of 'able to communicate their needs to (or have their needs known by) to a known adult used to reading the signs and therefore able to manage without nappies in a 1:1 care situation' is some people's definition

Equally, 'night time dryness' means to me that they either sleep through without wetting, or wake themselves up and take themselves to the toilet if needed. Others may say it is when, through lifting or waking their child, the child can manage without nappies at night.

Thanks teacher - I like that blog generally. Will have a read later.

I guess nursery would count if they could make their needs known to staff and wait to be taken but needed some help with clothing? Hope so if they're taking just turned 2 yr olds anyway! If you're going to make a fuss about wiping their own bums properly too I'm not sure if my 6 yr old is fully trained either...

Ah, bum wiping .... DEFINITELY another story....

out of interest if my son had been born twenty years ago when nurserys refused to take children that were not toilet trained would he have just not been allowed to have his nursery year? He goes to a special school now and has a diagnosis of autism and learning disabillities he was diagnosed at three and half but not before he started nursery and went to a mainstream nursery attached to ds1 school.

Well thats certainly discriminatory especially towards children with disabillities i,m not surprised the law had to change.

And his nursery year went a long way to to getting a quicker diagnosis for him so support in a lot quicker although he was obviously being assesed prior to starting nursery as there were many concerns his nursery pushed for the statement and his placement at special school [ probably so they didnt have to have him at their school but in the long run hes better off where he is.]

Xboys back in the day a lot was discriminatory towards chikdren with SN, Glad times have changed for the better.

definatley Aeroflotgirl although i,m not sure inclusion in mainstream schools work with a lot of children with ASD [ or maybe thats just my experience]

No it does not always boys, dd8 thrived in her special ASD school, mainstream would be too stressful and overwhelming for her. At MS dd behaviour was very concerning, violent. Once moved to her SS, she calmed right down, she is calmer, happier and achieving.

would it be cerebal palsy Dixie? i,m on Bacardi so not clear headed!