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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think it's very hard to LTB if you're Irish?

221 replies

TirNaNog100 · 04/12/2015 22:40

I’m not disputing that it’s often right - and necessary- to LTB. I usually agree with the advice given on the Relationships board. But I think that it’s often overlooked that cultural context may make this very difficult to do, even in cultures ostensibly quite similar.

I’m thinking specifically of Ireland, where I have returned after many years in London. From what I see, there is a world of difference between how ‘broken’ marriages are viewed in the UK and in Ireland. Among my Irish circle of friends, I don’t know anybody who is divorced. Not one couple. The same applies to my husband’s friends. And those of my three sisters. I live in the country so I accept there is probably a Dublin/rural divide going on, but I think divorce and separation are also rare in Dublin.

This train of thought was prompted by recently attending a school reunion where only one out of forty women (late thirties) was divorced. And by considering my parents-in-law wretched marriage – my MIL will soon be celebrating forty years of being tethered to a violent, manic drunk. It is accepted here that women of her generation really had no way of exiting horrific relationships. But despite greater financial freedom and legal rights, I'm not sure the situation has changed that much. Would love to know other mumsnetters' views?

OP posts:
TurduckenForDinner · 07/12/2015 13:03

He was probably confusing it with Iceland leedy, it happens a lot. Grin

Fitzers · 07/12/2015 13:07

everyone remember Bean Mhic Mhathuna and us all being a shower of wife-swapping sodomites

Oh yes, and there's plenty of her ilk still about, getting far more attention (certainly media wise) than they deserve. Just wait until the abortion referendum, whenever that will be.

Fitzers · 07/12/2015 13:10

There's no harm in correcting someone is there though Turdurken given it was also pointed out to you when you were doing things that for example transgressed the social norms in the places you were visiting. I don't think anyone's really upset about it, just pointing out it's redundant to say Southern Ireland.

I know all about cultural issues and perceptions of Irelamd abroad having spent years living away from Ireland with an unprounouncable Irish name.

TakeMeUpTheNorthMountain · 07/12/2015 13:15

when really it's an unimportant island at the outer edge of a continent that nobody really thinks about

I don't think that's true - I know us Irish often have a chip on our shoulder about this stuff but we have given the world a lot.

I know that has nothing to do with Divorce here sorry !

MaisieDotes · 07/12/2015 13:26

when really it's an unimportant island at the outer edge of a continent that nobody really thinks about

Well, we're all thinking about it on this thread aren't we? So let's stick to the correct name.

abbieanders · 07/12/2015 13:31

it shows that the user at least has some awareness that NI is a different country to the Republic

It's not that impressive when people in the UK know what other places are in the UK.

TurduckenForDinner · 07/12/2015 13:34

There's no harm in correcting, no. When I did stuff wrong people just pointed it out, politely. Anyone getting snippy with me, expressing annoyance or being patronising would have been ruder than I was being because my rudeness was unintentional. But also, everyone has to accept that things can be acceptable in one country but not in another. 'Southern Ireland' is an understood term in whatever country that person is posting from.

For instance, I've been talking about Myanmar a bit because my BIL is there, nobody in Ireland has a fucking clue where that is and so I have to say it used to be Burma. The other person usually then refers to it as Burma for the rest of the conversation. It would be nicely ironic if the people that insist on calling it Burma would correct someone from Myanmar calling us Southern Ireland, but I can't say for certain. Anyway, I never correct them because the correct information has been mentioned and they have chosen not to use it for simplicity's sake, and anyway it makes no damn difference either to me or to Myanmar.

CastaDiva · 07/12/2015 13:35

I certainly didn't grow up (rural south-west in the 70s and 80s) with any such inflated sense of Ireland's international importance, but, leaving the world at large aside, I fail to see how there's any justification for widespread English ignorance of the basics of what a neighbouring state and with a profoundly mutually-intertwined recent history is called. (I make no calls on Scotland and Wales, where I've spent far less time.) We share a language, and Ireland is right next door - it's not a matter of having to make enormous leaps of imagination to place Vanautu on a globe.

TakeMeUpTheNorthMountain · 07/12/2015 13:37

or instance, I've been talking about Myanmar a bit because my BIL is there, nobody in Ireland has a fucking clue where that is

Talk about pretentious!! And talk about mis informed.

Are you Irish TurduckenForDinner?

TurduckenForDinner · 07/12/2015 13:40

Irish people get it wrong too, I've used 'Britain' several times on this thread when I meant 'UK'. I should know better, indeed I do know better, I just don't care that much. It doesn't seem massively important (to me). None of you 'Southern Ireland' objectors pulled me up on it.

TurduckenForDinner · 07/12/2015 13:44

Well, ok, I can't be sure that nobody in Ireland has heard of Myanmar. I've probably spoken to a particularly uninformed subset. (Yes, I'm Irish, but lived a lot of my adult life outside Ireland. There are two types of Irish people living in Ireland, those who think Ireland is perfect and everywhere else is a bit odd and those who are inexplicably bitter and cynical and find Ireland quite frustrating.)

Booyaka · 07/12/2015 13:44

Aren't there some sort of sectarian connotations to the phrase 'southern Ireland'? Isn't it something loyalists object to because it implies that all the counties are the same country?

I don't necessarily think it's wrong, because it is in a southerly direction on the island of Ireland.

MaisieDotes · 07/12/2015 13:57

Turducken you're moving into GF territory now.

If you honestly believe what you've written above then you are very silly indeed.

Elendon · 07/12/2015 13:59

I left my first husband in 1988. It was no biggie because I didn't have children.

thank goodness.

Elendon · 07/12/2015 14:03

I'm British, born in Norn Iron, but was married and lived in the Republic of Ireland at the time.

I was able to obtain a divorce via the English courts, because we married in a registry office (someone's front room!).

TakeMeUpTheNorthMountain · 07/12/2015 14:10

Seriously GF territory- I feel very sad for you.

Besides goady or no, there is another type of person you haven't mentioned - people who don't think Ireland is perfect and just enjoy living here, while also being aware of the world across the water - you know, like 99.9% of the population?

Fitzers · 07/12/2015 14:15

Well, ok, I can't be sure that nobody in Ireland has heard of Myanmar. I've probably spoken to a particularly uninformed subset. (Yes, I'm Irish, but lived a lot of my adult life outside Ireland. There are two types of Irish people living in Ireland, those who think Ireland is perfect and everywhere else is a bit odd and those who are inexplicably bitter and cynical and find Ireland quite frustrating.)

You certainly know some uneducated and misinformed people.

I think far from your overblown portrayal the majority of Irish people like where they live but find some things (which will vary from person to person) annoying about it, like people from many other countries round the world.

QueenChippyOik · 07/12/2015 14:36

I agree with the comments about 'home'. When I relocated to a cheaper area in the height of the boom, one of the reasons I couldn't fake a happy face for new acquaintances was because I thought I'd lost all chance of ever owning my own home again. That depressed me a lot more than the issue of being single etc.. Luckily for me, things changed

TurduckenForDinner · 07/12/2015 14:48

Well, that's true about GF., sorry. And to be honest most of life in Ireland is pretty good, especially if you have a decent income. The DC have a more relaxed lifestyle and better education than if we lived in London.

But there's no escaping the fact that if we still lived in London I'd be divorced and free, and not stuck in a miserable marriage, sleeping in the tiny box room of a house that was entirely paid for with my inheritance, while my H has the master bedroom with the comfortable mattress and the en suite. I could be by myself instead of having to be constantly polite and conciliatory so that he doesn't make my life miserable. And I hold Ireland's conservative attitude towards divorce entirely responsible for my misery. If I didn't spew bitterness every now and then I would end up stabbing my H, and it wouldn't do the DC any good to have a mother in prison.

QueenChippyOik · 07/12/2015 14:56

Myanmar is the old name for Burma I think. I suppose it depends what circles you mix in but everybody I know would cut themselves they're so sharp.

I am not even Catholic so think I can see or feel what proportion of the weight of judgement comes from the Catholic church and how much comes from that middle class judgement, obviously I felt no catholic disapproval (or if I did, it wasn't my relatives) but I did feel a bit shabby, that I wasn't as solid and respectable, or as nice and as decent any more Wine omg. So hard to type that but I did feel quite shabby for years. I'm so over it now.

QueenChippyOik · 07/12/2015 14:59

Turducken bite the bullet and think about what's most important to you.

Being happy. Or appearing to be happy.

QueenChippyOik · 07/12/2015 15:02

Oh, wrong way 'round. I must be one of those stupid Irish people. I'll get my coat and stand in the corner.

Why are we talking about myanmar?

Fitzers · 07/12/2015 15:15

I think Irish people generally have a good knowledge of other countries and world events, certainly more so than many of my non Irish friends. We tend to travel more widely and being a small country are exposed to more world news than many places. I know some Americans who only knew what was going on in their state and a bit about US news as their local TV news stations and radio only covered local events in the main.

Turdurken I agree that if you are miserable you should ignore the opinions of others and take whatever steps you can to extricate yourself, there must be something you can do?

Cel982 · 07/12/2015 15:22

Sorry to continue the thread derailment, but the Burma/Myanmar debate is about more than just people not paying attention, Turducken.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7013943.stm

And I'm sorry about your situation, it must be awful. Hope you can find a way out soon.

TakeMeUpTheNorthMountain · 07/12/2015 20:55

Turk if that is your situation then I really am sad for you.

But you can get rid of a pig anywhere in the world - you talk about uninformed, closeminded people yet you seem to surround yourself with the.

Come down to me in Cork. No one would give a priests fart if you left him.

They would probably buy you a pint.