To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

I would have discharged myself if this was allowed

I discharged myself because this wasn't allowed. I'd have had a home birth if I could.

Pay for a private room, problem solved

Not quite. That's not an option in all hospitals. But end up with a two-tier system where dads who can pay can stay?

All hospital wards are degrading..all involve personal examinations.

I recently gave birth to twins in a hospital that allowed each woman to have their partner there 24 hours. As soon as I heard about this policy I disagreed with it and thought it was utterly disgusting that women would have to out up with strange men surrounding them when at their most vulnerable. My husband couldn't stay due to looking after older child, and I wouldn't have wanted him to, because my lovely husband is somebody that other women may not want on the other side of the curtain. Three experiences I had during my stay:

1 - the partner of the woman next to me shouting "for fucks sake, shut up" when my twins were tag team crying. Sorry, they're tiny little babies. They cry. Yours does too.

2 - attempting to tandem feed babies, midwife came along, checked on me, left, but left my curtains slightly open. Cue the bloke opposite constantly turning round to look at me. I was in pain from a section and precariously holding both babies. I couldn't shut my curtain or call for help, so he just stared.

3 - drunk bloke throwing himself onto an empty bed. "Can I sleep it off here?" Amazingly the midwives said yes.

Thankfully my childbirth days are behind me, but I wouldn't want any other woman to put up with any of that. Any political party attempting this as a policy are extremely misguided.

Oh, and I couldn't pay for a private room as they were all taken by higher priority cases.

Having partners staying is just a cover-up for substandard care. That's what needs to be addressed, the fathers bonding argument is just idiotic. When men weren't allowed overnight, did their relationship with their child suffer? Have generations of us been left screwed up because daddy went home at night for a few days?

Don't the majority of mums discharge themselves to go home with their dhs. I get it with first births or complications but other than have baby and get out of there.

This is a difficult one to address.

I got lucky (in a manner of speaking), both DS and I nearly didn't make it so we stayed in for another five days after he was born but NOT on the postnatal ward. We were in a small ward room that was empty apart from the three of us, so my DH stayed. We slept big spoon and little spoon on the same bed, we took turns with DS, and he held me when I was overwhelmed and when I was overjoyed. I do not know how I would've coped (especially that first night) without him there.

The last night I was moved onto the postnatal ward and obviously he was not allowed to stay then. I found it very difficult and my DS and I both suffered a little that night, he must have picked up on my anxiety.

However, knowing that not all men are as well mannered and lovely and respectful as my husband, I'm not sure I would have been comfortable breastfeeding and crying my eyes out with strange men around me.

The only way to appease both parties is to ensure that each woman is entitled to her own private room. And the NHS will not be able to fund that.

The problem is postnatal wards. I just gave birth in Sweden - own room,extra bed in there for my dh. Not flash, but the care was amazing. People answered the buzzer, it was quiet, clean, and we were so well looked after. The care was joined up.

The nhs is trying to use family members as cheap care, which pardon my language is an absolute fucking disgrace. It's what you see in the third world! The stories I've heard from friends back in the uk are hair raising.

Pretty much every other European country seems to manage single rooms and sufficient staffing levels - and these are single payer taxpayer funded health systems.

It is bloody disgraceful.

That's awful fondantfancy. I'm so sorry you had to go through all that. Someone will be along in a minute to tell you off for being so sexist, though.

I'm not suggesting that allowing men to stay on the wards will magically create a bond that wouldn't otherwise be there. Just that men who do want to support their partner and spend the first few hours of their child's life with them should at least have an option. Let's be honest, the ones who would want to stay would be the nice well behaved ones. The rubbish, noisy drunk ones people are understandably worried about will bugger off at the first opportunity.

That is awful Fondant
In our hospital partners were allowed to visit 9am - 9pm. They were generally lovely and kept themselves to themselves except for the couple in the bay next to me. She seemed alright but her partner was very odd and while I was trying to unsuccessfully latch DS on one morning before DP arrived I noticed her partner was nosying through a small gap in the curtain. Very off putting and it made me feel uncomfortable, I was half dressed. I don't think I would have slept at all if he was staying overnight in the next bed to me.

Let's be honest, the ones who would want to stay would be the nice well behaved ones. The rubbish, noisy drunk ones people are understandably worried about will bugger off at the first opportunity.

What makes you think this? They don't necessarily do that when they stay during the day, and we've heard on MN already from women who've experienced the rubbish ones hanging around overnight too. Additionally, I'd have thought it was obvious that the ones who are not just rubbish but controlling and abusive would have a very strong motive to stay 24/7 if allowed.

"If you don't want your partner with you that's fine but why should that affect women who would like their partner there? People saying if you want your partner to stay during the night you should pay for a private room, but actually, the people who don't want unknown men around them should be the ones paying for a private room, after all, they are the ones with the issue.."

Not really. All the women are the patients and need to be there. If you want a non-patient to be given overnight accommodation then you need to pay for that non-patient to stay in a private room.

You can't expect a patient to have to pay for a private room solely so a person not receiving any sort of medical treatment whatsoever can be given free room and board on the wards.

PlaysWell after a c section and post natal infection, I could hardly move about, the midwives were lovely but severely understaffed, so yes I needed my dp there.
It's a hospital, if you don't like the conditions, don't have a baby. Why should I have a home birth when I am not the one complaining. I'm more than happy for partners staying, the people who are moaning should stay at home- they are the ones with the issue!
Some times people should take some man the fuck up pills and get on with life. Can't always get what you want.

I had a horrendous time and they actually pushed through my discharge as they knew the person i needed most was dp. If i could of paid for a private room i would have done but you still arent allowed partners in private rooms.

My husband would have loved to have the opportunity to stay with me, particularly after the birth of our first child. It is a really special time and I think any steps we can take to make the experience better for both parents has to be worth discussing at least. How difficult can it be to install curtains that close? Just sayin....

Some times people should take some man the fuck up pills and get on with life. Can't always get what you want.

What a kind and empathetic human being, not trying at all to minimise and make fun of the genuine reasons some women may have for not wanting strange men around soon after they give birth...

"It's a hospital, if you don't like the conditions don't have a baby"

Those weren't the conditions when I had my first. Visitors were sent home at 9pm. I had no reason to think this might have changed when I got pregnant two years later. After all, successive governments have attempted to eliminate mixed wards in hospitals. Naively, I would assume this would include post-natal.

'How difficult can it be to install curtains that close? Just sayin....'

And the noise? And men using the toilets?

'Why should I have a home birth when I am not the one complaining. I'm more than happy for partners staying, the people who are moaning should stay at home- they are the ones with the issue!
Some times people should take some man the fuck up pills and get on with life. Can't always get what you want.'

Right back atcha.

Cerseirys, I wanted dp to stay, wasn't allowed. You can't always get things the way you want them, that's just a fact. I wasn't happy but what could I do? Just get on with it, that's all I could do.
The NHS provides a safe place to give birth, we don't have to pay health insurance to receive this service, hell some people don't even have to pay anything towards it. In an ideal world we would all have our perfect birth plans, but until then what can we do?

It's a hospital. The people that should be there are the patients. Not their support crew.

i wonder if this will go the way of childrens hospitals. now the parent stays and does all the care(apart from medical stuff)

Arrived late to the thread just in time to catch gua s little gem

Agree with all the posts following hers, especially expat who beat me to the reply

I think allowing men on the ward is a lousy idea for all the reasons previously stated

.....and this entire thread is why I had a HB and will be doing so again if humanly possible if we have DC2.

And seriously women who don't want male drs have no right getting pg? Oh yes, silly rape victims and child abuse survivors, who the fuck do you think you are trying to move on and have normal lives?

What ignorant bullshit. I don't do male drs for intimate exams and I never will unless it is a literal life or death situation.

For all those making the comparison between "male" medical specialisms.....there are about 75% male consultants in fetal maternal medicine and obs/gynae at my local hospital.

Want to guess how many female andrology docs there are? Oh right. That would be zero.

Because for some reason, women don't tend to go into "male" health areas whereas historically "female" medicine has been entirely male dominated, often to the detriment of women.

Now, why might that be....? Not male privilege surely?

You're so right, guaji . It is a hospital. Not a hotel.
Hospitals are for patients, in this case, mothers and babies.

Ha ha that makes no sense expat, I didn't get what I wanted, I had to man up and deal with it though. People saying they would discharge themselves if they didn't get their way. Get a grip. I was desperate leave and go home to be with my dp but I'm not gonna discharge myself if it puts my baby at risk, am I?
I struggled so much without my dp at the hospital, didn't sleep for 3 days then collapsed at home. I stood crying one night waiting for a midwife to come help me, my scar was agony and I couldn't move, but I needed to breastfeed. I waited half an hour. I felt totally helpless and like a totally crap mum. Those feelings stayed for months following the birth. Not blaming anybody, but I 100% know having my dp there would have helped during the night. But it wasn't my hospitals policy. Not much I could do about that.

INickedAName but why is it up to the NHS' to sort out peoples' religious problems? If a woman had an issue with being undressed in front of males I would suggest a home birth (or avoid getting pregnant), as there is no guarantee you would have a female midwife/doctor during labour, so this in itself would be a problem, no?

I was thinking along the lines of if a woman is from a culture that has treat her as a second class citizen the she is also vulnerable.

FGM is a problem in some cultures, for those women a home birth would not be possible, women from those cultures didn't get a say in what happens to their body so I'd not be surprised if they would be denied access to contraceptives.

I could imagine having to share space with unknown men when you've been told all your life it's wrong would be upsetting.

Being undressed around a male doctor doesn't mean you have to be ok being semi naked around other men.

It's not something I know a lot about, so might not even be an issue.

If I had strict religious beliefs that I felt were not being catered to, then I would go give birth in a country where they were.. That's not me being callous, but in the real world we cannot attend to everybody's religious wants/needs without offending somebody else. If you don't like the way it is done here then leave. Simples.

But the way it is done at the moment means some, maybe most, maternity wards do not allow partners to stay overnight, many women are saying they don't want to campaign for changes in the regard. I don't think women should have to go abroad to have children to avoid random men on post natal wards. If I said that if someone wants a partner, then they should go to a country where all hospitals allow it, or not get pregnant, I would rightly be flamed.

If you don't want your partner with you that's fine but why should that affect women who would like their partner there? People saying if you want your partner to stay during the night you should pay for a private room, but actually, the people who don't want unknown men around them should be the ones paying for a private room, after all, they are the ones with the issue.

Women who have just given birth are the actual patients, why should they have to pay for a room to accommodate someone who isn't a patient.

I truly do understand why it would be nice and why women want their partners with them, I wish there were enough private rooms for everyone who wanted one, for every woman to have a stress free as possible experience, I don't think can be achieved with partners staying on a mixed ward the whole time, however lovely they are.

for everyone who has had a bad experience.