To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

Wow, some seriously nasty opinions on this thread!

I had two c-sections and managed fine without my dh there. It wasn't the best time to be sure, it would have been much nicer if I could have had the home birth I had planned. But then ds and I would probably both be dead, so not really a choice for us.

First time I quite enjoyed being on a ward, the other women were friendly, and several were from the same anti-natal group, so that was nice. I had ds on me most of the time so no real concerns about feeding etc. I did struggle with the idea of having to get up and eat breakfast with the other mothers, but the midwives were right, the sooner I was up and walking about the quicker I got to go home. dh spent most of the time with me, which was lovely and I didn't have an issue with him going home.

Second time was quite different, I was in a different hospital and the post natal ward was not at all friendly. dh was busy looking after ds and couldn't be there too much, whereas the women in the beds next to me had what seemed like huge families visiting from early morning to late at night, all being quite loud and eating lovely smelling food. I felt very very lonely and isolated. I still didn't have any issues with looking after dd, as this time I knew that early movement was good for me, so I fished her out of her plastic tub and popped her back no problems.

All those saying that the "solution" is for every woman to have a private room with an ensuite so that DP's can stay without encroaching on the space of other women...seriously?? There's no way that's happening, the costs involved in converting every postnatal ward into entirely single rooms would be huge. The idea of allowing partners to stay over is all about saving money, not spending it! This is clearly an attempt mitigate the impact of low staffing levels due to the cuts. Rather than staff post-natal wards safely and appropriately, they will offer up the option of DP's or another relative being there to provide care 24/7 like it's some generous gift. It has nothing to do with making people more "comfortable" or helping Dad's bond with their babies.
It's all well and good if you have a reliable, helpful DP but for those women who have useless or abusive partners or no partners at all, how does this benefit them? The vast majority of women on this thread who have stated they "needed" their DP overnight have admitted that this was due to lack of care available on the ward. That's what should be addressed first, the staffing levels on postnatal wards. But that would cost money

Revloting that was about using religion as a reason to not want men
On the ward and I stand by it. If your religion does not allow unknown men to see you undressed in anyway, then due to the fact that you would not be guaranteed a female midwife (it's likely you would get one but not guaranteed) then surely labour would be far too upsetting for you so why would you risk it??? If there are no female staff available what would happen?
No where did I mention abuse victims getting pregnant. Read posts properly before commenting.

I would like to know what midwives and other HCPs think of this. are there any on the thread?

guaji - my birth experience was pretty similar. It was fucking horrible actually. And if I'd been allowed to have someone there with me overnight, it would have been much, much nicer. But it isn't just about me, it's about the other 3/5/11 women I'm sharing a room with.

Maybe what we should do is go back to the days of rooms where all the babies sleep in and they're only brought in for feeding.

INickedAName thank you for your sensible response to my posts, nice to have a debate about an interesting and obviously very emotional subject. Sorry if I misunderstood your first post.

Lynda is it wrong to admit that is what I sometimes wished for.. Lol bad mum
I had ds at 2am and dp had to leave about an hour later and I felt so lonely and terrified. I appreciate this is not how other women would feel. I think it is something I feel so strongly about because those 3 days were genuinely awful and I would never go through it again.

Having men staying on wards goes against the NHS single sex accommodation policy. It says that single sex wards "safeguards privacy and dignity when people are at their most vulnerable". How some women can come on here and think their desire to have their partner overrides basic dignity for others is beyond me!

We could all stand toe

We could stand together and fight for better prenatal and anti natal care instead of demanding our partners stay overnight and then all women will receive excellent care. Allowing men may disadvantage the most vulnerable, whereas better women's health care will benefit us all.

Yanbu.

In the hospital I gave birth in there were two private rooms for the whole maternity. Two. I did in fact pay to stay in one and was kicked out after a couple of days onto a ward because someone else needed in (apparently the fact we were struggling enough to still be there did not make us high priority).

I was there eight days before my husband checked us out, against medical advice, because I was going to genuinely have a breakdown.

I was trying to breastfeed (something I seriously tried to give up and was talked into not doing) and baby was not cooperating or thriving due to jaundice. So they woke me up every three hours to feed. Fine, except "sleep when the baby sleeps" (WHICH THEY KEPT SAYING, AND I WANTED TO KILL THEM) only works if you're not on a ward full of visitors having a party when the baby sleeps (I have no objection to husbands, I have huge objection to your eight person family).

I couldn't get out of bed without severe pain due to something that was only spotted after several days. Until then I was refused help getting out of bed (we're not insured!) or getting the baby (you should be coping on your own!). I had severe iron deficiency from bloodloss and God knows what else. I needed someone to take baby for a couple of hours so I could sleep in peace; something people who are not ill due to complications get at home without question. We are seriously in the situation where people kept in hospital because they are having problems get less rest than people who are healthy and can go home because the people at home have a chance of having help. How does that even make sense?

guaji
Thank you. The thread was moving fast, and I probably posted in haste anyway. It takes me ages to type my posts and I still mess them up.

I'm sorry that you didn't get the support you should have had from the hospital, you had crap care which made you feel like a crap mum, nobody should be made to feel that way and I'm sorry that you had to experience that.

We could stand together and fight for better prenatal and anti natal care instead of demanding our partners stay overnight and then all women will receive excellent care. Allowing men may disadvantage the most vulnerable, whereas better women's health care will benefit us all.

Hear hear! I'm a member of WEP so I'm going to email them tomorrow and ask them to reconsider and link this thread. While I might appreciate having my dh with me after birth I respect the rights of other women not to have him around more. My preference doesn't trump another woman's need.

swg1 that sounds awful and traumatising, I hope it doesn't still affect you and your husband.
Not sure if you are for or against men on the ward from your post, but tbh it doesn't matter in this instance. Whether you agree or not with my previous posts and vice versa, I feel so sad that you had an experience like that. I remember telling the hv I was considering combo feeding rather than exclusively breastfeeding and she actively discouraged this. This was a decision I made after I collapsed a few days after coming home from hosp, and my dp and I decided that breast is only best if mum isn't lying on a heap on the floor crying..

INicked, the midwives were mostly lovely, in particular the student midwives. I distinctly remember one young student missing her tea break because she was helping the woman in the bed next to me to latch her son on, and I thought that said it all about the staff issues in the NHS.

guajira it's actually affected me enough that this round, given that I'm likely to have similar complications than last time (gestational diabetes, so I MUST be induced, I MUST have drips in each arm which means giving birth on my back, very few people manage that kind of birth without epidural..) I've said from day 1 I want a c-section. Yes, I know the risks, yes, I understand, don't care, you're not inducing me again, I want a c-section, I want the minimum time in hospital, then I'm going HOME.

(Needless to say all those people saying homebirths are the answer are causing much bitter cackling from over in the complex birth corner).

I needed my husband with me - or, if I couldn't have him my mum would have been acceptable. I needed an advocate for when I was too drugged and in pain to advocate for myself, because someone needed to. I needed someone there to take the baby at 2AM when I was delirious with exhaustion and needed five minutes to pull myself together. I needed someone with me at 7AM the day they told me my baby was severely jaundiced and heading to SBCU immediately and I cried too hard down the phone to explain to my husband why he needed to come to the hospital NOW rather than when visiting started in two hours (he came anyway, but I'm pretty sure he thought the baby was dying because I couldn't get words out - or stop crying - until he arrived).

You are a patient in hospital, yes, but as a new mother you aren't just a patient but expected to be a competent carer and responsible for someone else. If, for whatever reason, you are not physically capable of doing that then the hospital need to either arrange people who are (does not have to be qualified nurses - I understand they are needed to go do medical things, could easily be someone just for that purpose) or let someone stay with you who can.

swg1 totally 100% agree.
Are you getting a c section then?
I hope it all goes well for you- I had a c section in March and it has all healed well so I wish you the same recovery! Best of luck for you and your family

The first birth I saw was my godson, 20 years ago: lovely birth, no pain relief needed, completely straightforward. Afterwards his mum stayed in hospital for a full week. She told me she was having a lovely time, making new friends, getting lots of help from the midwives, spending time getting to know her baby...

Now, I'm sure she was very lucky, but I think postnatal care in the UK has got worse and worse and is now at scandalous levels. Hospitals tend to focus their resources on labour - because that's the part of maternity care where things can go stratospherically wrong and end up in litigation - and postnatal care has been allowed to gradually sink. Plus: women don't usually put in complaints about the misery of the postnatal ward because they're knackered, weak, just want to get home and get on, and because everyone keeps telling them that the only thing that counts is that the baby is alive.

I do completely get why people want their partners with them, but I don't think it's the right place to direct campaigning energies. Surely WEP should focus on postnatal care?

Indirectly, revolting. Male privilege allowing more men to work full time in an on call heavy surgical based specialty with longer hours and more nights/weekends both as a junior doctor and throughout consultant career. Yes, because their wife can look after their kids/give up her job/drop hours etc. more women in gp for example as easier to do it with a family.

And I do know a few female urologists, too.

Yeah....let's have loads of men wandering around a maternity unit in the middle of the night....not a security problem at all....midwives can monitor that as well seeing as they have nothing better to do! (Sarcasm)

I'm a nurse.....and we have the same problem....visitors want get to stay overnight.....I don't agree with it unless some one is dying....occasionally seriously ill people ( not in ITU not possible)...It really difficult trying to nurse a patient with a relative sat or lying next to them...you need full access around the bed in case of an emergency situation. ...I don't want to be trying to get to a collapsed/ill patient with bags/computors/plugged in phones/books/empty cartons of food etc in the way. ...especially at night in dim light...The tutting of a sleeping relative that you disturb while checking on their loved one is another big issue with me....and the demands of tea/coffee etc.....I do not mind doing this for a terminally ill patients relatives...that is part of my role in patient care....to get the same for a relative who turns up from the pub and has no way of getting home is not....I agree some new dad's may need to stay if there are any complications....but not every one.....certainly not ones who think it's a night in a hotel with room service!

I don't know what the answer is.
Seperate wards? Private rooms?
I understand why some people wouldn't want men there, i however would want my dp there if that is the question.
I suffer horrendously with anxiety and other bad health problems anyway which will only be made worse by pregnancy.

I have been admitted to hospital several times this year, thankfully not long stays!
I wouldn't have coped without my dh there!
He helped me to the loo, with my medication, got me drinks etc
I'm actually less embarassed with him helping me too the loo as i'm so used too it, but it was the fact he was there. He calmed me down during a very worrying and painful time as i was a mess.
If i can conceive, a home birth wouldn't be an option, due to the medications i have to take, i'd also love a private room but hard on one wage.
I also have been assaulted.
I can see it would be embarassing being around men i didn't know but seeing it from my view i'd think that maybe the mothers had problems like me and needed their other halves there.

To be quite honest, I don't see how it ever got to this point in the first place. This would never have occurred to me or any of the mothers I knew. I appreciate some mothers need help following a caesarian and a small minority have complications but I don't understand why a partner needs to stay otherwise. What is so difficult or terrifying about looking after a baby, and why does it need 2 people?

Of course I would have loved to have dp there but I wouldn't have wanted other men being there whilst I was sleeping or struggling to bf in the middle of the night and I'm sure other women wouldn't want my dp seeing them either. I also loved the private time with my baby. There's plenty of staff if you need help. Newborns really don't take a lot of looking after anyway.

Also, if a woman is being abused it may be the only time away from her partner. It may be the only time she has the courage to speak up. If you want your dp there you should pay imo or have the baby at home.