To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

Annandale. I didn't see the "videoing" someone. That is wrong. Although I could see myself doing it to prove how bad the situation was.

We will have to disagree, but I would like to say that Childbirth is different to any other reason to be in hospital. And as such it is pretty much the only time I would consider partners staying acceptable.

Sorry, I know my personal opinion is just that and not important in terms of the discussion, but it is troubling me that this will be the case. There will be no solution or change between now and my due date, I would imagine.

Being an inveterate over-sharer on MN I'm hardly an angel

Happy to agree to disagree. There would be winners and losers either way.

Culture. Of course your opinion is important with regards to the conversation. If you are going to be using the services soon you are more than qualified to comment and important to the discussion. I hope your concerns are unfounded.

My concerns will be played out, sadly. The hospital I will be going to allows partner overnight stays. The ward is large, and it was bad enough last time when partners went home in the evening. I can't see how anything will change between now and then so that partners are no longer allowed to stay overnight. I'll be expressing my concerns and objections to the supervisor of midwives but I imagine that will have zero effect.

I won't be voting for or supporting the WEP, which actually is really disappointing as I was fairly hopeful wrt what they were trying to achieve. It all seems very very poorly thought out.

So this override thing if there were no spaces in the no men postnatal ward would mean that most of the time, the men allowed ward would have to take women who don't want men overnight, and home they'd have to go anyway.

This would be an awkward situation too, the women on the ward will know that that the patient who has just been admitted, is why their partners have had to go home. I can imagine that sometimes creating an unpleasant atmosphere.

It's happening in a lot of hospitals, Culture.

This is a hospital fairly local to me www.mtw.nhs.uk/news/maternity-money-from-doh.asp

Head of Midwifery seems to see it as a very positive thing - and is prepared to spend a vast amount of money on comfy reclining chairs for the men - with little thought about new mothers maybe not wanting to share the ward overnight with men they don't know inches from their bed.

Ignore last post, should have finished reading thread

£8000... On reclining chairs.

"y lacking. It's not just staffing levels in my opinion, it's also the attitude that it's "just" childbirth and we should be able to cope. After minor surgery we give people large amounts of opiate painkillers, yet post c-section we expect people to cope with over the counter medications, be fully mobile and look after a newborn."

Yy to this. My visitors also seemed to think like this - apart from a lovely friend who had been through it recently and bought chocs and magazines for me rather than stuff for baby!

Ohbehave, the NHS has to run on the best thing for the majority; a publically funded health service is going to be making those calls every day - this new cancer drug vs that knee replacement innovation etc.

Haven't read full thread . I was happy for DH to leave our pfb(born 10.30pm) and me and go home to ring my DPs and close friends (no Mobiles in those days), 'process' an overwhelming experience and get a decent night's sleep . The second time he had DD1 to look after.
He went into work the following day,got slight drunk at the lunch time celebration to 'wet the baby's head' and arrived at afternoon visiting (by taxi I later found out. He'd had to leave his car at work) and carrying a rather bedraggled bunch of daffodils. He did spend the whole of visiting hours besottedly cradling our little daughter. I was quite happy spending quiet- one on -one time with her before we went home and started 'famiy life', to be honest. To be fair, I dont think midwives were so pressed in those days and I got quite a lot of support on the ward .If that makes me odd/unatural then so be it ! Its obviously different if you have a sick baby or an unwell mother .
And I'd have -hated- other women's husbands being around except at clearly defined times

WEP would be bettterto put their energies into campaigning for all maternity wards (and delivery suites) to be adequately staffed. There should be no 'need' for a partner to look after a newly delivered woman . ' Wanting' the other parent there is another matter

at videoing a sleeping patient to show a visitor the sleepers snoring. She might have been annoying on the phone when she was awake but videoing her when she's sleeping is weird imo.

I often snore and would be mortified if another patient videoed me. Sometimes I kick blankets off and if nightie ridden up then everything is on show, at least just women have the same bits but I'd hate for strange men to see me like that, Photos and recording of sleeping women is thing I hadn't considered, would it be ridiculous to worry about some men (and other patients it seems) taking snaps/videos of vulnerable women?

I agree with postchildrenpregranny.

Staff are possibly snappy mould because they work 14 hour shifts, often without proper meal breaks and in shift patterns which are known to have illeffects . They are themselves exhausted and stressed ..Not saying it's right-and the better ones try very, very hard not to take it out on the patients . The answer is to have adequate staffing levels

One other knock on effect has just occurred to me is that more men staying overnight = fewer HCPs. Fewer HCPs = fewer people around to intervene if some bloke kicks off.

Incidentally, if we currently can't afford enough HCPs to go round on PN wards, how on earth is the cash going to be found to build all these private rooms with en suites.

And hygge I know you posted some time ago but for you

I really don't think a campaign for more single rooms is realistic .The big regional hospital where my DD2 works as a midwife was built to accommodate 6,000 births a year. It deals with 10,000 . It should have 14 midwives on duty, minimum . It functions on 9 or ten most of the time . It isn't safe for the mothers and babies and it sure as hell is not the best environment to work in .
DD2 loves being a midwife . She doesn't love the stress and the frustration of not being able to adequately practice what she was taught in training .

The answer is to have adequate staffing levels

Yes indeed. Maybe then I wouldn't have been shouted at for bleeding through the sheets. From across the ward, I might add - no privacy, no dignity.

If rooms hadn't been given over to admin staff, there may have been enough delivery rooms, so that I wasn't bathed, and dragged from mine, when I had ds1, before I had recovered the use of my legs from the epidural (and top ups). I begged them to have a bit more time before I was moved to the ward, to no avail.

When I was labouring (slowly) on an antenatal ward, and got the sudden urge to push, they had to grab a midwife back, who was in the car park, on her way to a neighbouring hospital, to come see to me. I can't imagine the working conditions of hospital midwives, they are stretched soooo thin.

The one amazing thing was the crash team who were called in when my DD stopped breathing minutes after the birth. They were amazing - right there. They saved my DD's life, and I am forever grateful and in awe of them all.

Yes I agree fanny my DH was a very engaged father despite neither of us particularly wanting him to stay in the hospital with me (and in those days you were routinely in for 4/5 days). He did want us to come home-me, I felt safe in hospital ....
And judging from the way some visitors behaviour at visiting time I doubt they'd be much practical use anyway . Some people's sense of entitlement is breathtaking in its arrogance (Not getting at anyone on here)

underthegreenwood my DD2 gets an hour to attend to a newly delivered mother and complete all the paperwork before she goes up to the ward . Such is the pressure on delivery rooms . The co -ordinators get very stroppy if it takes longer .God forbid she should she actually talk through the delivery and take time to reassure the mother,talk about feeding etc

" When I was labouring (slowly) on an antenatal ward, and got the sudden urge to push, they had to grab a midwife back, who was in the car park, on her way to a neighbouring hospital, to come see to me. I can't imagine the working conditions of hospital midwives, they are stretched soooo thin. "

Just to add, this was ds2. The midwife that was called back for us literally delivered the baby, then had to dash off. She poked her head back round the door and said 'I know the names of every baby I've delivered - what are you gong to call him?' We hadn't decided, we were far from decided, but I told her the name at the top of my list. We did end up calling him that name, it somehow cemented it for us.

Postchildren, that is very sad. Births are so very different - my other 2 I was fine to go the ward fairly soon - it was just ds1, with the epidural, I couldn't actually walk. I wanted to stay put and I couldn't.

Yes it is sad, both for the parents and the professionals .
Having said all the above, DD has had some wonderful experiences-the bus driver who returned her fare one evening (she was in uniform) saying 'you delivered my son ' (it was two months prior and he remembered her), the cards, flowers .. . She says it is a great privelege to do what she does . I just worry about her .

MN stasi?

Despite many women telling you, in some detail, why what you want is unacceptable to them. Despite a few women telling you that they would not engage properly with hospital services if what you want to happen is happening, you're still happy to disregard the majority of women, to ridicule and berate them, because YOU wanted your partner there.

Your wishes are more important than everyone else's. Your needs trump theirs. Even to the detriment of their health, their wellbeing and their baby's health.

They can be compared to a regime that extra judicially murdered people routinely because they aren't immediately acquiescing to your demands?

Seems totally reasonable. I'm calling GF.

Maternity wards should not be used as 24 hour hostels for all and sundry, they are for looking after patients, ie the mother and the baby, not any old member of the public.

WEP is missing a trick here. The better campaign for all, rather than just ohbehave, would be for WEP to be campaigning for maternity services to be better funded, better run and for there to be more midwives and HCAs on hand to help women. The quick fix of allowing all and sundry to hang around maternity wards 24/7 is a recipe for disaster.