To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

Dads staying over is a luxury item and given the services are so stretched this seems ludicrous. I just had a baby in Addenbrookes - awful experience on the ward, understaffed and disorganised ... I saw posters about his and thought it was so unnecessary and not a priority. Why? Just why?

There was one dad parked up on the bed during the day with just his trousers on doing 'skin to skin'. For some reason I wanted to deck him. Women are seriously struggling with physical pain post labour - I know I was - and it's not a priority in my eyes for dads to begin their bonding. He made me uncomfortable, dragging s catheter around and unable to walk fully upright. At least the other ladies know what you're going through. Surely the dads can wait 24 hours.

Ugh. I cringe at the thought of new mothers having to deal with unknown fathers in close proximity doing skin to skin. How uncivilised.

DC1- EMCS, 4 night stay
DC2- ELCS- 3 night stay

Against Dads staying unless in a private room. No private room, no overnight visitors.

Clearly no-one at WEP has ever worked in a busy hospital. There was a time when I would have completely agreed with this policy. Now I think it's totally unworkable.

All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.

The sheer illogical nonsense of that really bugs me. They are also saying "If you are on a ward you will have up to three non patients in the same room 24/7 as you whilst you discuss nipples, vaginal bleeding, stitches and whether you can poo and wee without crying."

Do they not get that there are two sides of this lovely shiny coin they want to hand out? Do they not get that by "giving" women this right, they are at the same time taking women's rights away?

This has put me right off the WEP.

I wish someone from WEP would come on here and discuss this with us.

Reading with interest because DH and I are currently undergoing IVF. One of the things we are currently considering is whether - if it works! - I should give birth in the country where I have temporary residence because of my job, or the UK. DH considers that medical expertise is better here and doctors are more likely to be highly skilled. I agree with this, but I have also heard many horror stories about UK obstetric care which make me nervous. Despire being temporarily resident in a "developing" country the issues we have in the UK are unheard of - all rooms are private/en suite and if you want an epidural you will damn well get one. There seems to be a level of respect for mothers and for the birthing process that is absent here.

If the policy in my local NHS hospital is to permit men in wards 24/7, then I will not be delivering there. I am fortunate to have the option, but what about women who don't? If it is accepted that I should not expect men in a changing room, a toilet, or anywhere else where my dignity is at stake, why the bloody fuck is the NHS/the WEP/anyone permitting men in already overcrowded wards to hover the other side of a curtain next to a new mum? It's a retrograde step, to put it mildly. And I cannot believe that PP's were suggesting that husbands sleep on a camping mat on the floor. It's a hospital FFS, not a refugee camp. Infection control anyone?! It would go against every maternal instinct I have (and a few I don't) to permit some unwashed stranger to lie on the floor 3 feet from my newborn. Has the NHS really lost its humanity to this extent? How long before they decide no HCP's or midwives are needed on the PN ward any more, because the husbands and partners handle everything? What about safeguarding?

I am not even in the in the UK at the moment and I am raging about this! Incidentally, DH and I are Muslim and although usually very non-devout, I would absolutely refuse to remain in any mixed ward on the grounds of my religion if I thought it meant the HCP's would take me more seriously. It is completely culturally and personally unacceptable to me for any strange men to be loitering a curtain's width away from any vulnerable woman and baby, and if this was asked of me, I would stage a Daily Mail headline-worthy kick off until the men were removed or I was given a private room. They can only implement this if women accept it and we shouldn't, for all the reasons explained on this thread.

The WEP can fuck off. Better PN care? Yes. Private rooms for all? Yes. Parners permitted in private roms? Absolutely. Mixed wards for PN women? Get to fuck.

I don't think there are a lot of Western/Christian/agnostic/atheist whatever women who like the idea of strange men wandering about after they've given birth, either.

I think the majority on this thread are horrified. I hope someone from government or the NHS is reading this thread. Or can we expect the WEP to get its way without the chance to register our displeasure?

In that case Sarah they should act/speak, rather than just suck it up. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that the painfully PC powers-that-be at the NHS (DH works for them) would be more persuaded by a religious/cultural argument. I would use every tool at my disposal to get men removed from the ward (including that one).

There are of course many excellent secular and common sense reasons why this is just an utterly shite idea.

It's absolutely fine for partners (and other visitors) to be able to stay with new mothers 24/7 in a private single room.

It is not fine at all for any new mother to have to live 24/7 with other new mothers' partners (or other visitors) in a shared room or on a ward.

The obvious answer is to have both. Our local hospital has enough bays to allocate 1 to those that want it. The rest of the bay's could be allocated to those that don't want it. Simples.

I see, oldfarticus. I doubt this campaign will gain much traction in any case.

OldFarticus well said. Love your user name.

Hope it all goes well with the IVF.

I don't think it will be "simples". There will soon be overcrowding or busy times where you don't get the bay you want and need. There's also the security door which will be pinging every time a 24/7 visitor wants to go to the canteen/ for a fag/to leave or come back.

I think that until every patient has the choice of a private room, it has to be NO to overnight visitors on wards.

When you have a private room whilst in hospital, you cannot lock the doors. The room has to be accessible to NHS workers 24/7.

Chatting about this to my sister last night, when she had dd1 visiting times were the same as the rest of the hospital, with the exception that dads could stay longer, (8-8) but just them, if they had other dc with them then they had to leave at usual times, and had to leave ward at meal times, She remembers that all the men left at tea time, and the women who had straight forward births with no complications etc mostly left on the same day/next morning. Sister had trouble establishing feeding so spent two nights in, the people who helped her the most were the other mums on the ward, sister was 18 and said she will never forget the advice she received from other mums who had a wide range of experiences. Her dp was lovely but he didn't get it, so made himself useful by getting stuff ready at home for her (he did a brill job, mum turned up as she had seen his version of clean, but he did a fantastic job)

When she had dd2 she was a little older and thankfully she had a straightforward birth and feeding established quickly, at visiting time she was shocked at visiting time when one of the women's partners came into the ward, sister knew him and also knew he had served time for rape. He kept himself to himself and didn't bother anyone, but I understand why sis felt uncomfortable by him just being there. She knew she was leaving that day told herself to stop being daft, but said if she had to sleep the night with him when she had dd1 she prob wouldn't have had anymore children because two days of feeling unease would have put her off. Not because she thought he'd attack her, just knowing what he had done made her uneasy.

She said that if we end up in a situation were all partners can stay, she think there should be some system, such as a crb check at the start/midway of pregnancy so that partners who had convictions against women such as dv or sexual assault, could be refused constant access to the wards. She said it wouldn't stop all abusive partners because not all are convicted but if those with certain convictions would be prevented from working with the mums, then they should be prevented from constant access on wards too.

Fwiw, she knows NAMALT but those who are should not be on wards 24/7. A certain famous footballer who is having a baby would prob have private care, but she'd think most women would not be happy having to sleep on a ward with him, and if they knew the convictions of the man on the ward when she had dd2 they would feel uncomfortable too. She doesn't think it will happen though, and that if we end up with a blanket all partners allowed, then many women are in for a miserable time.

I doubt this campaign will gain much traction in any case

agree with this! The NHS have bigger fish to fry.

and as for There was one dad parked up on the bed during the day with just his trousers on doing 'skin to skin'. For some reason I wanted to deck him

oh for FUCKS sake, giving birth is in many cases a surgical procedure, why the fuck should women post a gynaecological op have to see that|!!!

When you have a private room whilst in hospital, you cannot lock the doors. The room has to be accessible to NHS workers 24/7

I'm referring to the door of the entire wing or ward, not each room. The one that gets shut between visiting times and staff usually use the keypad to get in and out.

Sorry Battleaxe, did not mean to reference you.

Absolutely there is a keyed door to the entire wing/ward. It's for the protection of the mother and the baby? And to also keep out aggressive partners and relatives.

This policy seems to be dreamed up by women who have lovely partners and whose friends all have lovely partners. It does not take into account the reality that not all men are gentle, quiet and respectful. I do wonder if they will have different policies in hospitals with a high Muslim population?

It has been pointed out at least a dozen times ohbehave that this 'choice' of which you speak is anything but 'simples'. We already don't have a lot of spare capacity in postnatal wards. The reality is that sometimes, if you decide to have some men allowed wards and some no men wards, sometimes the no men ward will be full. So when a woman who doesn't want to be on the men allowed ward needs postnatal care and there's nowhere else to put her, which will happen, what do you suggest? The onus is on those of you who think this could work to tell us how.

Elendon thank you

Sorry for the rant although it felt good, but this policy looks and feels like egregious discrimination against women to me. It normalises inadequate care.

Fanny. All I am pointing out is that it works both ways. There are legitimate cases where a partner should be allowed to stay. But it seems that the view is no, regardless of situation.