To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

All wards already let someone stay overnight in exceptional circumstances. But they are judged on a case-by-case basis, and are not the norm.

I can't see anywhere on this thread where it's been said that partners shouldn't be allowed to stay in private rooms where there's clinical need ohbehave. Those would be the legitimate cases you talk about. But still, that's something quite different to having a partners option for anyone who wants it, which you advocated upthread.

Cleaty. That wasn't the case 3 years ago - is it in all areas or is it another NHS postcode lottery?

I go from experience of a Dr saying that dad should be allowed to stay overnight and ward sister flatly refusing.

I'm just so grateful I'll never give birth again. The idea of trying to sleep and care for baby in a room full of me trying to start their family life as they see fit makes me exhausted.

And I'm fully recovered with a weaning baby.

It's impractical to allow men to stay, but I would have loved him to. I wanted to go home that night but was cautioned against it, despite having a very straightforward delivery. I remember feeling very alone, overwhelmed and vulnerable when dh left and lay awake most of the night counting down the hours until dh was allowed back to collect us.

I go from experience of a Dr saying that dad should be allowed to stay overnight and ward sister flatly refusing.

There's a reason for that. I'm guessing the ward sister had far more experience of actually seeing what it's like when dads stay over than the doctor did.

Yes I do believe that the other parent should be allowed to stay if the mother wants them to. But I have NOT said at the expense of those that don't want it.

Of course women shouldn't have to put up with it of they don't want to. But I do believe that those that want them to should also have a choice.

Yes - the simples was a bit faceasous but it is that simple. The facility should be available for both groups. Only on maternity wards but not elsewhere.

OldFarticus, It normalises inadequate care.

Absolutely agree with this.

to you too.

I go from experience of a Dr saying that dad should be allowed to stay overnight and ward sister flatly refusing.

There's a reason for that. I'm guessing the ward sister had far more experience of actually seeing what it's like when dads stay over than the doctor did.

Yes. And the Dr was looking at a case where they knew the situation and was looking after the best interests of the mother. That father could have been removed if he had become a problem - as it was the mother had to suffer.

I am sorry but the ward sister was 100% wrong in that case.

Ohbehave1 The situation, as you described, was that the mother "needed the support" of her husband. So that trumps the needs of the other women on the ward to not have to share their sleeping space with random men?

Only on maternity wards but not elsewhere.

Of course not. It might adversely effect men on other wards.

And what about women who have language difficulties or long term health conditions and DON'T have a partner who can stay?

Friend other relations - NHS interpreters/ trained NHS therapists I don't know.

I don't particularly want visiting men on postnatal wards nor do I want it to be the expected default position. I'm more than aware when you have other DC it's not always possible to have DH at hospitals even for births or anyone else for that matter let alone long term.

However there are going to be a few exceptional cases where having a DP/DH might make a huge difference because life throws curved balls and extreme unexpected situations happen.

Yes campaign for better funding, more training and more staff for the wards - but having where possible enough flexibility to cope with extreme situations would seem to be common sense. So building hospitals with private rooms on postnatal wards or not turning them into admin offices where the currently exits would help with that plus then give staff some discretion to use in extreme situations.

Having men there isn't a priority or a well thought through proposal and yes better staffing would solve many issues that people want DP/DH there for - just perhaps not all and perhaps rather than deny that -we should expect facilities to cope with it.

So then tell us, ohbehave, what you think should happen when the no men beds are all taken, and a woman needs postnatal care but doesn't want to be around strange men? Or vice versa, come to that.

As for fathers being removed if it becomes a problem, this isn't the reality. There aren't enough medical or security staff already, they simply aren't going to be able to police people's behaviour in current numbers. And in any case, other women shouldn't be put in the position where they might have to deal with him being a problem and/or be frightened into silence.

Zoe. She was in a private room. Having had a very traumatic multiple birth.

But this is the problem. Everyone shouts no to it happening all the time when there are cases that need consideration.

Abbieanders. What a stupid comment to make. It would apply to male and female wards so affecting men has nothing to do with it.

My argument isn't about trying to give men privilege. It's about giving women the choice that suites them.

Funny that you've only just now mentioned it was a private room ohbehave, several posts in. Even though it's a pretty integral part of the story.

When I last had surgery, (6 years ago- yeah!), I was in a ward that was devoted to the surgery I had. At the end of the ward, there were women on the right bay, men on the left. All the other bays were taken up by men.

When it came to getting pain relief, guess who were served the last?

Yes, the women. When I asked why this was, I was told by a nurse that it was because the men would kick off if we were served first, and they couldn't handle the aggression. I was shocked - and desperate to leave by then

Fanny. What the hell has that got to do with it. The fact that the mother had been moved to a private room should have made it easier to accommodate the mother and Drs wishes.

And no, I don't have an answer. But it is s legitimate question of how do you accommodate those that want or need help from their partner without causing issue from those who don't want men around.

It would apply to male and female wards so affecting men has nothing to do with it.

Why, overnight visitors in the male maternity ward? I'll apologise when I see that.

Abbieanders. Stop deliberately trying to derail what I am saying.

What I meant ( and you damn well knew it) was that the only place I think partners should be allowed is on the maternity ward. So, it would not affect men or women in any other part of the hospital.

I accept that a woman shouldn't be forced to have a partner (male or female) stay on the ward that they are on. As I have already said, I believe that there should be the ability for both circumstances to apply.

The private room has absolutely everything to do with it ohbehave, because men in private rooms are not sleeping next to women they are strangers to. That's an absolutely integral part of your anecdote, which is why it should've been mentioned before several posts in.

Haven't RTFT but what about the men who are smokers? Drinkers? Staying all night with my newborn and men's stinky farts. Men using the toilets.

What a terrible idea.

Sorry Fanny but the argument is for partners to stay on maternity wards. Yes it is eAsier to say yes to those in a private room but many are just saying pay for the privilege - when it may be more of a necessity.

Friendifbill. What about the women who smoke or drink. I know women don't do smelly farts though.

The women will be the actual patients though won't they? The partners are extra people that are not actually needed there in the majority of cases. When you're in a ward you have to accept there'll be other patients but in all other situations they would be the same sex as you.