To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

Thanks swg yes it was terrifying being left at my hospital being told im seriously ill and could die and then left in tears on my own and in absolute agony. Then Left for over 6 hours with no pain relief till my dh got mine.
Hearing docs talk about things they really shouldn't be.
Yes i have anxiety but i don't need to be locked up, frankly that was just a vile post.

Dh didnt stay with me after No2- he got kicked out after visiting hours ended. I really wish he did though (I had a private room), because to be quite blunt about it the 'care' on my local pn ward was a fucking joke.

I had extreme SPD, and had lost the ability to walk. I could stand briefly if I had something to hold onto but I genuinely couldnt walk. I had been using an electric wheelchair from 11 weeks.

Except I wasnt allowed to bring my chair into hospital 'because it hadnt been risk assessed' I was told I could use one of the hospital 'wheelchairs' instead. That'll be the ones that someone needs to move for you then.

I was then told that they wouldnt be brinking me any of my meals to my bedside as I needed to go down to the dining room and 'socialise' with the other mothers. At home I was crawling around the house as I was physically unable to take steps. There was no fucking way on earth I would have done this on a postnatal ward.

Dont even get me going on having to beg the staff to wheel me to the toilet. B@stards, the lot of them.

Luckily Dh clocked the situation pretty early on and brought me a serious amount of food and drink that we had to hide as there was a 'no unwrapped food' policy active on the ward and the cheeseburger and chips tasted like heaven

However, they need to sort out the care on postnatal wards first before they even start thinking about anything like dads staying overnight.

It's so awful the way women are abused on maternity wards.

We don't need more abusive people there FFS.

Get a grip WEP. Start a campaign for hospital staff to stop being abusive to women who have just had babies. That's a much higher priority than intrusive visitors.

Iwipe sosorry to read your story that's awful!
I atleast got a cup of tea once or twice a day.
I understand, my dh has to help to the loo and to get dressed sometimes anyway!

Homebirth is not a solution when people subject to this kind of anxiety are more likely than usual to have complex medical needs. Private rooms might be - if they are available. But the feeling that you need an advocate at all times, that someone might come and Do Things to you without asking if someone isn't with you is not unreasonable [i]if that already happened once[/i]

Well, yes, I totally get that, but I think you could also bring a female friend, as to not inconvenience the other women on the ward.
It need not be the husband.

I think the problem is that most (not all) of the poor treatment is caused by understaffing. Realistically - particularly the the announcement on stopping training grants for nurses today - understaffing is not going to change under the current government, no matter who campaigns for it.

Having someone with mothers who aren't coping on wards though, while it has issues, is low-cost enough that it might actually be achievable.

It's like wishing for world peace. Sure, everyone might want it but if you know it's not realistically achievable you see what you might be able to get instead.

I haven't been able to read the rest of the thread and I won't be back either but all I can say is I am 100% sure that not having my husband with me during 3 nights in hospital contributed to PTSD / PND and had a hugely detrimental effect on me for years later. I think the trouble with these type of threads is posters like me are scared away by the aggressive comments of people with opposing views (v triggering for me which is why I won't be coming back). Maybe WEP view has been drawn from research into the issues and not just the views of those who had a straightforward experience. Of course there are issues with allowing men onto wards but surely maternity care needs to be modernised to take this into account rather than just telling people to suck it up.

VestalVirgin I'd totally be fine with that, and said earlier in the thread that if I couldn't have my husband I'd happily have my mum. However, if you're talking several days/weeks.. my husband is legally entitled to take that time to come support his wife. My mum isn't (though I'd hope her office might give her compassionate leave). An unrelated female friend of my own age? Either she's likely to be working, and very lucky to get the leave, or she'll be at home because she has her own kids. "Come stay in hospital with me for a few days and put your life on hold" is a big ask for someone unrelated.

" Of course there are issues with allowing men onto wards but surely maternity care needs to be modernised to take this into account rather than just telling people to suck it up"

No one has suggested this; most suggestions are around improving ward care and staffing. This would also mean mothers without partners/who had partners looking after kids would get support.

I'm sorry you had a bad time.

Get a grip WEP. Start a campaign for hospital staff to stop being abusive to women who have just had babies.

This is a really important point.

I was treated diabolically by some of the midwives when I had ds1. I was forced onto a commode after an epidural, into a bath after delivery (because they needed the room of course), told to wash my hair (!) like a child, pulled out of the bath, into my dressing gown and wheeled to the PN ward - all before I'd got the use of my legs back from the epidural. I had also vomited, and had ds1 shoved onto my breast. It was unspeakable. DH was right there, but he was just ushered outside. He was a bit in shock because it was quite a traumatic labour.

Still unable to walk, I bled all over the bed. I was shouted at again: "I've got to change this now - you've made more work for me!" Because obviously I should have just lain in my own dried blood all day. It was like being abused - physically and mentally.

I doubt WEP have based their policy on research, tbh.

The problem here is that there are two equally valid but incompatible feelings on this. One set of women would be appalled at partners (mainly men) staying overnight on a ward with curtained bays. The other set of women would be appalled at not having partners staying overnight in wards with curtained bays. The two sets are never going to agree. There's no way of determining which set of women should be ignored and their needs not met. The only way to resolve this is to have private en suite rooms for each patient, but under the current funding levels I doubt that will ever happen. I suppose you could have two wards, one with partners and one without. But what would happen if your chosen ward was full? You'd have to be put in a ward that wouldn't accommodate your needs.

I also don't know how hospitals can square this idea of partners staying over on a curtained-bay ward with the pledge to remove mixed sex wards? It seems in direct contradiction to it, with no reasonable explanation given as to why.

So many posters on mn complain that men aren't doing enough childcare. When men have a chance here they shouldn't be allowed? Make your mind up

I was in hospital with my son for a week when he has his appendix out and other parents who were also sleeping on the open ward were male. How is it any different? Personally when i had my kids i was quite happy not having dh around, i had enough to contend with, after a traumatic birthday and with a new baby!

Clearly another one who couldn't be fucked to rtft.

That's ridiculous, Mailgirls. And rather unpleasant, the idea that if a woman isn't prepared to endure this massive intrusion into her privacy and dignity at a vulnerable time she has no right to expect equal parenting.

I completely agree that women get bullied and abused on PN wards. We've all seen it. Why this isn't a national scandal I have no idea.

It's like father's are fighting a losing battle

It's amazing, Mailgirls, how my DP has managed to be a fantastic dad despite being sent home every evening from hospital. And we were in for a week too, so presumably by your logic he ought to be a complete deadbeat dad.

The mn relationships logic really

Do enlighten us...

Mailgirls, since apparently you think MNers need to make our minds up, can you find these scores of posts complaining that dads aren't doing enough childcare overnight on the postnatal wards? Because presumably you think there are some. The nearest we ever come to that is a few people on these threads, who are invariably significantly outnumbered by those of us who don't want that. Not that there's an MN hive mind, but we are remarkably consistent as a community on this particular issue.

Not on postnatal wards. In general

But this discussion is specifically about postnatal wards. Have you not read the full thread? Or indeed the title of it?

A perfect environment for men to help out in

It really isn't, and if you read the full thread you'd see why. It's got nothing to do with how much they help out later.