To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

I paid for a private room, my DP didn't get to stay and I never expected him to.

There are plenty Of examples When an in patient would benefit from their partner staying over but it's not allowed because of space, resources and single sex wards.

WEP's policies seem to be about the individual good at the expense of the social good.

Yes, the WEP should be focussing on better post natal care, not this stupid idea.

While I would have appreciated DP being there overnight, I also wouldn't have wanted other people's partners around me at a vulnerable time, especially after DC1 (ELCS). I didn't have it bad, but do remember being on the ward while still stuck with a catheter and worrying about the crowd around the next bed, who were very close to knocking DC1's bed (and they were loud; I just wanted some peace and quiet to rest).

Because I'd needed the CS, I was in the city hospital but managed to get transferred after 2 days to recover in my local MW unit. I had no escape from the noise until then, and the difference in care, etc was amazing.

YANBU. My lovely, kind, supportive husband is simply a stranger to the other women on the ward. What is nice for me is an unfair encroachment on their privacy at a vulnerable time.

It's a hospital. It's not a place for partners to stay over.

On what other ward (except oncology, I know they have all day visiting hours but I'm not sure if people can stay at night unless they are at end of life) allows partners to stay over? They don't because they realise that people who are in need as much rest and privacy as they can get. I was home 4 hours after 4 of my births as I was lucky enough to have straight forward births. In my hospital, if you are staying in there is usually a medical reason for that, which means you need rest and privacy.

I work on a busy ward and visiting hours can be a nightmare for so many patients, that's 4 hours a day they don't get rest, have to put up with big crowds, have people watch them being wheeled to the toilet on a commode, ask for a bed pan knowing that other people can hear. I can't imagine them having to put up with visitors 24/7. It's no different for someone who has just giving birth either. I wouldn't want people to hear my conversation with a dr on their ward round. I also wouldn't have wanted to go to the toilet leaking blood like I had to with my first, with men all around me.

Visitors can also cause problems for staff. For staff they often cause more work. They can be very demanding in their own right. We don't have the staff to worry about visitors as well. Some may be helpful but many won't be and will cause more work.

It's a hospital, not a hotel and everyone is hospital deserves as much privacy as possible.

My husband would never stay even if he was allowed to because he would never want to make another woman feel uncomfortable when she is recovering from childbirth. He would be very conscious that some women may not like it and he would respect that. It's a shame some women can't respect other women's need for privacy as well.

'What is so difficult or terrifying about looking after a baby, and why does it need 2 people?'

Because one person, the mother, is ill after giving birth. Not all women have straightforward deliveries.

kali110 I also have no option of a home birth because I have type 1 diabetes. I also have anxiety. I would discharge myself if random men were staying overnight in the same room as me. Which one of our needs trumps the other's?

I had to put up with this during labour. (I have told this story on these threads before - it's getting old)

5 bay ward - 4 women being induced and me in full on labour. I was alone but despite it being A. well past visiting an B. I WAS IN LABOUR all the visiting men decided it was appropriate to stay. 3 of them were general bellends, talking loudly, making phonecalls etc. 1 in particular was verbally abusive to his DP. The 4th was horrific. He repeatedly told me to 'shut he fuck up' and kept coming into my bay, next to my bed when I was IN LABOUR. I passed the mucus plug into the toilet and, as instructed, went to find the mw to have a gander (took about 15 min to find one) and was called a 'dirty bitch' for not flushing the (patient) toilet. I ended up labouring to 7cm in the hospital corridor so men who were not patients could stay overnight on a womens ward, so the WEP can get tae fuck, as can all the disingenuous 'what's the harm in a man sitting quietly in a chair' brigade. Maternity is for women, not men. Can't they let us keep one little thing for ourselves?

I am still amazed at the posters on here that think their desire to have their partner stay with them comes before the privacy and safety of the other women they share a room and facilities with, after giving birth.

I find it so incredibly depressing that while everyone admits there's a problem with postnatal care, the solution the WEP campaigns for is not improving it but for women to lose more of their privacy, dignity and right to rest and safety while recovering, because the possibility of improvement doesn't even appear on our collective radar. The fact that the NHS is short of money isn't taken to mean nothing in any other area can ever improve. Women really are socialised to put ourselves last - but one would have hoped a party called the WEP wouldn't be quite so keen to do that.

HamaTime - that's appalling. I hadn't seen that story before. Did you complain?

So many people have put this really well - it's the fact that while most of us would like our partners to stay, most of us don't want other people's partners around. It's impossible to do both. It would be lovely if everybody had a private room, but let's face it, that's not going to happen any time soon.

I didn't complain, I just discharged myself and never went back. I opted for a home birth the next time, but ended up with a crash section in a different hospital. The second hospital was lovely and at the time (sure it's different now!) had shorter visiting times. It was something like 10am to 8pm but there were breaks of a hour 2 or three times during the day so it discouraged all day loitering. My sis had a baby on a ward with 8am until midnight visiting for dads but in reality it meant for one person. She was crying with exhaustion because she couldn't rest with all the noise.

I hadn't heard your story before either. What happened to you Hama is appalling.

I'm currently 29 weeks and recently changed hospitals because the one I was originally booked in with has 24/7 visiting hours for partners.

The new hospital I'm booked in with has visiting hours of 9 - 9 for partners and these were introduced in consultation with the patients - it's what the majority of women at the hospital wanted.

The day after I changed hospitals I had to go into the ante natal ward for 2 nights due to a bleed and the partners on the ward were all considerate but it's not something that can be guaranteed and I was glad they weren't there all night.

I'm a bit worried that if I need a c-section I'll want my partner there to help look after the little one but I was more bothered about the scenario of being on a ward after a difficult labour, bleeding and trying to establish breastfeeding and having strange men nearby making me feel uncomfortable. I'm really not hung up about privacy or modesty in front of men and I'm sure there are lots of women who would feel a lot more vulnerable than I would.

I honestly believe that 24/7 visiting hours for partners have been introduced to allow them to take some of the slack from the staff - the WEP should be concentrating on campaigning for better post-natal care.

Are the WEP starting from the premise that there will shortly be no need for segregation by sex; I wonder?

Hama, I think you had a different username before but yours is the story I always think of whenever anyone says what a great idea letting dads on the ward is. It's shocking what you went through.

It would be nice for a start to maybe start to acknowledge and separate people staying for one/two nights (physically able, unlikely to have complications, able to look after baby on their own mostly, looking forward to going home) and people staying for longer (have probably had complications/their baby had complications, likely to be exhausted from trying to sleep on a ward, likely to be emotionally vulnerable/may be expecting more bad news, likely to be struggling to look after baby, needs more help, does not know when they'll get to go home). These are not the same thing and should not be treated as such. Moreover the cases staying in for longer (and most in need of support) are far less likely to be cases that ever had homebirth down as an option.

(It would also be nice to acknowledge that women who just gave birth are not "ill" in the typical sense and may need more calories than someone recovering from, say, appendicitis, and stop serving them portion sizes more suited to an infant school, but that's a rant for another day.)

I checked myself out against medical advice with DS, my third, due to the hospital's not chucking out visitors and therefore, it was impossible to get any rest. I had had high blood pressure. I had an epidural, my bp was still sky high, then I had two lots of some drug that starts with an 'l'. It was still scary high after 36 hours, but all those fucking people around wasn't helping. I recovered so much better after I was able to get some decent sleep.

It was the fact dh wasn't able to stay with me after dd1 was born at 7 pm in the evening (by 10 he was told to leave) that made me choose to have a home delivery the next time. Never once regretted that decision.

I have been very sick (emergency gall bladder removal - never having had an attack before) where I was on a mixed ward with just a curtain between me and the male next to me ( a eldery lady in the bed opposite ) it wasnt ideal but we made do. I do not recall a great deal from the days on that ward (I was in a lot of pain) but I do recall both of them trying to help me calling nurses when they realised I was in pain or unable to do something. I also recall coming too after the operation for the first time in a week not in terrible pain. & both of them smiling to me saying that I looked a lot better. (I felt it too)

I guess my point is that it SHOULD be a possibility for men to stay. I get that some feel this is not acceptable but then we need to look at what can make it acceptable.

For me I am happy it was never again a option and I have fond memories of each of our subsequent births cuddling up in bed together later on that day.

Nothing is going to make it acceptable for dads to stay overnight as far as I'm concerned Enkop.

Any other operation, adults get on with it themselves because they are being cared for by staff. Apart from all the cogent arguments others have put forward, this is just going to lead to an even poorer quality of postnatal care for all of us

Enkop, nothing would make it acceptable to me. Men being around vulnerable, in some cases ill and incapacitated women overnight is unacceptable. Care should be provided by hospital staff, having 24 hour visiting is just making it easier to cut staffing levels to the bare minimum. If we allow it on post natal, it'll ake it acceptable elsewhere. What next? Cancer patients having their chemo administered by their family?

' I get that some feel this is not acceptable but then we need to look at what can make it acceptable.'

The only way it's acceptable is when everyone has her own room and bathroom. That will never happen due to cost.

The thing is though. Its all about Dads staying over. Not all children to be have Dads. I hope grandmother's friends aunts ect are welcome to stay over night as well.