to think Mumsnet should delete posts in which women are called cis

[violetsarentblue]

I (and I imagine quite a lot of women on here) are fed up with being referred to as cis. I find the term deeply insulting.
I'm a woman and prefer to be addressed as a 'woman', not a cis woman.

I noticed MN are quick to delete posts where transgender people are called 'he' instead of 'she', because that group of people find the term insulting and MN don't want to offend.

Generally we delete posts in which people persistently refuse to refer to people by the pronoun (he/she; him/her) by which they’ve asked to be referred, out of respect for that individual’s wishes.

Please - could we have the same depth of consideration for our wishes?

Thank you.

It is a stupid expression that noone in my RL is aware of or uses and I have never seen used anywhere but here.
I am not engaging with it. It is twaddle.

"I'm not going to agree with you that no pre-op transwoman is safe with a woman who was born female and vice versa."

Well, you can't agree with me because that's not what I said; that would be a straw man from you.

Where would YOU place transwomen?

In men's prisons, in a cell with other transwomen if possible, alone if there are no other transwomen and the prisoner insist on not sharing a cell with cis men.

Transwomen are males who are at high risk of being beaten up by other males in prison. Just like gay men, or weak men, or ... well, anyone who would be a victim of bullying in school.

Isshoes, I'm a lesbian and have no desire whatsoever to be lumped in with the T. I've seen TAs guilt young lesbians on Twitter for not being into dick and recently heard about a lesbian teenager getting death threats merely for querying the use of "cis".

The whole concept of gender and male/female brains was set up a long time ago to squeeze women into a stereotype box and make them feel inferior to and dependent on men. Fortunately now the whole concept of "ladybrain" has been scientifically disproven. Women have a massive range of personalities, skills, interests, body types... the only thing we have in common is being the sex with reproductive potential and that's what got us oppressed in the first place.

That's why FGM, forced marriage, abortion rights, menstruation, birth / miscarriage care are women's issues, and that's why anyone who claims that list is transphobic because they "feel like a woman" and it doesn't apply to them can frankly get to fuck. I've yet to hear a clear explanation of what "feeling like a woman" means anyway.

isshoes, no, you are willfully misunderstanding the basic principles of biology.

There is no proof that transwomen are less violent than regular males.

Right then Vestal, if you are going to continue to insist on referred to transwomen as 'males' then I can see no further value in this back and forth. It is offensive and in my opinion deliberately inflammatory.

OneMore - can you answer the question?

Ideally in a trans gender wing, to recognise that trans people are uncomfortable with others who share their biological sex but that those who don't share their biological sex may be uncomfortable with them.

I just have answered it; phone crashed whilst I typed that bit first time.

Transwomen are males. Identifying as female (whatever that means) does not change biology. Their health concerns remain male despite how they identify. They don't magically become at risk of ovarian cancer rather than prostate cancer upon coming out as trans.

Empress I have made no comment on LGBT other than that being the source of my list.

If it's from me that you are awaiting a clear explanation of what 'feeling like a woman' means, you'll be waiting a long time. I am not trans, and I have no experience of feeling that I identify with a different gender to that to which I was assigned at birth.

What I do know is that millions of people in the world feel that way, and who am I or you to tell them otherwise?

A transgender wing would have to accommodate trans women who grew up with disphoria and autogynephiles, around whom at least some of the former may feel uncomfortable?

What is the gender identity of each prisoner?

That isnt really relevant - there is no way the Prison Service (or anyone else) can ascertain the gender of a person (eg what about agender or gender-fluid?)

Prisons are segregated by sex. On occasions there may be exceptions to this for various reasons, but this should be an exception - not the rule.

Far easier, and far more sensible to segregate by sex rather than gender in pretty much all cases.

Since when it is "inflammatory" to state facts?
Besides, I would not need to point out that transwomen are, in fact, male, if you didn't demand that they be placed in women's prisons.

Alis - I don't believe that whether you are at risk of ovarian rather than prostate cancer is a factor in prison assignment.

I will say the same to you - if you are still entrenched in the view that it is not possible to change gender, then we are never ever going to agree on this matter.

isshoes - I've stated my position on gender identification quite clearly so I don't think we're going to agree either.

if you are still entrenched in the view that it is not possible to change gender, then we are never ever going to agree on this matter

If you believe in gender, of course it is possible to change your gender! People who identify as gender fluid do it all.of the time...

Changing ones sex, however, is an impossibility.

Far easier, and far more sensible to segregate by sex rather than gender in pretty much all cases.

Except it isn't.

Isshoes, trams women are males - sex is biology, it's not changeable.

Has anyone pointed out what a waste of money it would be to have midwives, etc. on duty in women's AND men's prison?

It makes sense to place those prisoners whose medical needs are similar to each other, from a financial point of view, even if you are not concerned about the ethics of imprisoning women with males.

So women should have to share prison spaces with men just to stop those men committing suicide? Talk about emotional blackmail.

I think you are being wilfully obtuse, isshoes.

I'm talking about changing sex. Which is impossible.

Agreed Empress.

Slugs - honestly I don't have the time to explain transsexuality, but there is a wealth of information out there.

That story, while sad, ishoos, doesn't prove your point. Unless you think that prison officials should yield to every demand made by inmates, for fear they might kill themselves.

Isshoes, Vicky's death is tragic.

Is there any evidence that she was being harassed or assaulted by men in a way that wouldn't have happened to her in a female prison? I know the inquest is in its early stages.

I take it you think the current law on prison placement is transphobic?