to think Mumsnet should delete posts in which women are called cis

[violetsarentblue]

I (and I imagine quite a lot of women on here) are fed up with being referred to as cis. I find the term deeply insulting.
I'm a woman and prefer to be addressed as a 'woman', not a cis woman.

I noticed MN are quick to delete posts where transgender people are called 'he' instead of 'she', because that group of people find the term insulting and MN don't want to offend.

Generally we delete posts in which people persistently refuse to refer to people by the pronoun (he/she; him/her) by which they’ve asked to be referred, out of respect for that individual’s wishes.

Please - could we have the same depth of consideration for our wishes?

Thank you.

A lot of us started off as trans allies or at least vaguely sympathetic. But when TWs shut down women-centred events and campaigns (sanpro availability, FGM, Vagina Monologues, Michfest) for being transphobic, sue rape crisis centres for not employing them pre-op, and want violent criminals with fully functioning penises to be in prisons with vulnerable women, over 50% of whom have suffered DV/sexual abuse, we get pissed off.

And what the hell does "feel like a woman" mean anyway, except for confirming to some stereotypical gender role convenient to the patriarchy?

I don't think it is hatred. As I said, it can just as easily be ignorance.

What is transphobic? My statement of biological fact or that I don't misgender transpeople? Because I'm not seeing how either are.

Ah I see One. Also agree that would be discriminatory.

Incidentally women are banned from having abortions in Ireland, but anyone can identify as male/female. So transmen may well have a better chance.

^Skips past most comments

^
Didn't SouthPark do an episode on that term?

I do think there is an issue when transwomen are placed in male prisons, of course.

Alvis - you asserted that transwomen are not 'real women' which as stated above can be described as 'transphobic'.

I don't think it's about abortions at all...it refers to any service to which trans people are denied access.

Such as? If transmen can get abortions (which I could see as being difficult with that whole legal gender change where actual sex is mentioned nowhere) then the whole medical sector apparently is not a problem. So which services can trans people not access?

Yes, asserted by you.

So what makes someone a woman, isshoes?

Given that vulva cupcakes have been deemed transphobic, I don't think it's a word that I can take seriously anymore.

It seems to me that the term "transphobia" is rather meaningless then. Just like "cis". It basically is "other people's beliefs, who do not accept that reality is how trans people would like it to be". So you're free to write me off as a transphobe. I don't care what you think. I don't think I am. As a pp said, you can't empirically prove it either way. You can't prove a negative. So I see no need to unquestioningly accept that particular belief and worldview. To me transphobia is about discrimination. Who here is advocating that trans people should not be treated fairly as human beings?

YY windy. It's utterly ridiculous how much people trivially fling the word around. It's lost its power.

I don't know Vestal - I didn't produce the list. That particular list of examples is from an LGBT society website. Another website gives the example of not being allowed to use the female changing rooms in a shop.

No Alis - it wasn't my list. It is from a webpage on LGBT rights.

There is currently a campaign started by a group of gay men who have the T removed from LGBT.

Your post reminded me (as you saw the list on an LGBT site).

Thanks, isshoes.

"I do think there is an issue when transwomen are placed in male prisons, of course."

But no issue about trans women sharing cells with born women?

I didn't say that OneMoreCasualty. I don't know what the answer is - I'm not an expert on prison management, but I definitely don't think it's fair or safe to put transwomen in with men.

Empress - someone whose gender identity is that of a woman.

If you don't think it is safe to put transwomen in with men, then you need not be an expert to know that it is not safe to put transwomen in with women.

This has been mentioned previously but according to transactivists transwomen aren't safe in male prisons. Transmen wouldn't be either.

So women's prisons should house - women, transmen and transwomen because they all fear violence from men?

Women are not the problem here.

Nope Vestal. It's not as straightforward as that. Someone who identifies as a woman should not be in a male prison, whether they were born physically female or not.

Generally speaking, I would advocate for transwomen - who identify as women - to be in female prisons. But I would say that each case should be considered on its own merit. Yes there are risks. But there are risks on both sides, and there are risks from female-born inmates too. It is a totally different matter to putting a transwoman into a prison with male inmates. You only need to read recent headlines to see why.

Isshoes, all vulnerable prisoners should be protected. Frail or elderly men, for example.

Does the idea of a female bodied prisoner sharing a cell with a male bodied prisoner give you any concerns?

Isshoes, if transwomen are not safe in male prisons because of male violence, then women are not safe with transwomen in women's prisons because of male violence.

It is quite easy and straightforward.

Of course they should.

It's not possible to comment on that without more information. Furthermore as I said, I am not an expert on risk management in prisons. There are multiple factors that would affect the situation. What is the gender identity of each prisoner? Did they commit violent crimes? What is their mental and emotional state? I am not qualified to answer the question, but I'm not going to agree with you that no pre-op transwoman is safe with a woman who was born female and vice versa.

Where would YOU place transwomen?

Vestal, that's just rubbish. You are wilfully misunderstanding the basic principles of transsexuality.