To think that this is out of order, and there's no shame in being cis

[JellyKnockers]

NC as potentially outing.

DD is 17 and gay. She's very active in local LGBT societies and organisations and has campaigned against homophobic bullying in her school. Today she received this email from one of the organisations she's involved with, publicising an event for trans writers.

What's wrong with being cis ffs?! DD has herself been on the receiving end of abuse in the past for being 'transphobic', simply because she's challenged the anti cis opinion which she encounters regularly. This despite the fact that she campaigns for equality and has done since she came out aged 14. She's seriously considering giving up the work she does with various groups because of this attitude, which is all too common. She's even received death threats on Twitter because she's 'evil' enough to think that equality should be just that, and everyone should simply respect everyone else.

I'm livid, she's livid, are we BU?

Wrt transphobia, I do think that cherry picking dodgy quotes is a classic tactic for biased groups. For example there are loads of anti feminist websites loaded with Valerie Solanas quotes. And anything that feeds the narrative that feminists are crazy and man hating (eg that girl that got fired as equality officer at goldsmiths for using the hashtag #killallmen) gets majorly over reported. That emphasis does skew things - like it's not a lie that Valerie Solanas or Andrea Dworkin or whoever said those things but they don't represent majority mainstream feminist thought. I think we have to be careful about doing the same things with regard to trans people - just because you can find an out there quote, it's potentially very misleading to put it forward as an example of trans thinking.

Exactly theycallme! I consider myself a trans activist / trans ally and I'm certainly not woman-hating or violent. We definitely get a bad press on MN.

I did respond to vashta ppost, to say she misrepresented the 'radfem' POV

And again, I'm bowled over by your total lack of comprehension of our POV, if you perceive that our opinions are coming from hatred and fear of trans ppeople

Its incredible, given the amount of times it has been explained

I'd like to see examples of people showing hatred and fear of trans people on MN. You keep saying it's there, but you don't back it up.

The other very important point to make about your comparison of transphobia with racism and sexism; is that black people and women have been born and raised in opressed social classes. They fight for equality with the oppressors, the onez with the power.

Whereas mtf tranz people are born and raised as part of the dominant social group; and are demanding to be treatwd as actually being a membwr of the oppressed group. NB not 'equal too' as they already have the power and influence advantage

'I read that...' is very different to 'I state that...'. Bit of a pot, kettle job there, really.

What are the true figures? As I said, quite transparently, I have read figures. I invited clarification.

People are fearful of male violence ego, not trans people because they are trans; but because they are men

Whether you like it or not, if you are male you are raised as member of the dominant group.

It's nice to know you didn't like it (what decent human being would want to be part of an oppressor class?) but that is not the point, really.

I wonder if the trans women who post regularly on MN also post about the issues faced by trans women on the more male dominated online fora?

jello we aren't tAlking about out there quotes' though. We are looking at changes to laws which are eroding women's services and protection

And of course it follows that trans women behave and act exactly the same as men because they are men?

Yes, got it.
That's how it is. It doesn't even matter whether one attributes male violence to nature or nurture, because trans women are both biologically male and raised as male. (With the possible exception of a few prepubescent transitioners, who I suspect are also raised with male privilege.)

You know, we all get that it is very embarrassing to have people like Jenner represent a group you belong to. But Jenner exists and identifies as trans, and Jenner does not care whether you do not want to be represented by autogynephiles.

And you ego have no idea what it is like to be raised as a girl/woman

Yes, the debate will go on and on. Because a lot of women are very passionate about preserving Womens spaces, protection and services.

You see to think that if women could just have a better understanding of the strugglestruggles and hardships you face, we will just abandon those things. But trans issues are not our issues. Your problems are not ours to solve. We have our own. And they are different to yours

Sorry shortcut didn't see you'd responded. I wasn't addressing radical feminism in its entirety, I was listing comments that I find upsetting and saying that I understand why trans people might feel unwelcome on MN. I don't think I used the word transphobic. There are many other words I could use, but I'm too polite