To think that this is out of order, and there's no shame in being cis

[JellyKnockers]

NC as potentially outing.

DD is 17 and gay. She's very active in local LGBT societies and organisations and has campaigned against homophobic bullying in her school. Today she received this email from one of the organisations she's involved with, publicising an event for trans writers.

What's wrong with being cis ffs?! DD has herself been on the receiving end of abuse in the past for being 'transphobic', simply because she's challenged the anti cis opinion which she encounters regularly. This despite the fact that she campaigns for equality and has done since she came out aged 14. She's seriously considering giving up the work she does with various groups because of this attitude, which is all too common. She's even received death threats on Twitter because she's 'evil' enough to think that equality should be just that, and everyone should simply respect everyone else.

I'm livid, she's livid, are we BU?

Dear god this whole thing has gone way too far now.

You gotta love Mumsnet.

Transgender people can openly call biological women CIS, even though the majority of women find the term deeply offensive and find the term insulting.

Yet, we are given a long speech in SiteStuff, about how we have to be careful to use the correct pronoun when describing transgender people, in case it offends them.

So basically, you are warned against offending a minority.
But it's perfectly acceptable for people to offend the majority.

What are others thoughts on this?

So where is the trans phobia?

Ridiculous, made up label. Born a woman, don't need any assistance with identifying myself or my female children.

I've seen examples of disrespect to people who post. I wouldn't describe it as rampant transphobia.

And I'd agree that it's easy not to see stuff when it's not about you but the problem with this issue is that it's about both women and transwomen so it's really about all of us.

I read that 80% of trans women retain a penis through choice.

No need to be transphobic, dear. It's not a penis, it's a LADY penis. Because the person who it is attached to is totally a woman. Seriously! See, she identifies as a female, so that means that her penis must be considered a female sex organ. Yay progress!

...god I wish I was making this up

I just think cis is a deeply convenient term. It makes out that there are two types of women, brilliant ones who've defined as women and the ones who do all the unpaid caring work, the low paid socially useful work and the reproductive labour. The boring ones that no one really wants to be but society can't function without. Men don't want to do the shitwork when they identify as men and they don't want to do it when they identify as women, either.

violets, yes, transwomen are a minority ... but men are not. Nor are they a majority, but it has always been acceptable for men to offend women.
Just not the other way round.

Therefore, it all makes perfect sense. I don't like it, but it is consistent with how society in general operates.

gribble that is probably because you don't understand the definition of 'transphobia'. It is not the same as other phobias, whereby you need to express fear or hatred or that you feel the recipient of your phobia is 'lesser' on someway

Transphobiais different. If you do not consider a person who self-identifies as a woman, as an actual woman, then that iz transphobic; regardless of them maybe having lived 40 years as a man, fathered children and having a penis and testicles

I long ago made my peace with being transphobic

What issue? Women and trans women have different issues as far as I can see. I agree that there is no need to be disrespectful to posters but expressing views about not accepting anyone who feels like a woman is a woman is not trans phobia

Shortcut Well in that case, me and my 'not sure about all this' thinking will be joining you on that bench.

Leading feminist Caroline Criado Perez - who campaigned in protest at the exclusion of women's portraits from UK currency - has been no-platfomed and abused for rejecting cis as a concept.

Apparently to reject a label makes you transphobic. This is what she wrote:

weekwoman.wordpress.com/2014/08/01/what-does-being-cis-mean-for-a-woman/

Ego people usually do see racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. very quickly on mumsnet.
Where do you feel the transphobia is?

I've said this before on these threads but - I agree that sometimes often on MN the tone is unwelcoming to trans people because of things like (not necessarily on this thread):

• Saying transmen are traitors to womanhood or lesbianism
• obsessing over whether transwomen are rapists/perverts/dangerous in any female-only setting
• comparing gender reconstruction surgery to FGM or self-harm
• using words such as weird, odd, special snowflake or attention-seeking
• using incorrect pronouns
• hijacking threads on any trans issue to go over the same arguments over and over so the original point is lost
• making generalisations about how trans people dress or act
• assuming all trans people are massively sexist and think female = fluffy kittens and male = football & agression
• using "trans activists" to mean "extreme trans campaigners who are not very pleasant people"

Oh god I could go on. It definitely goes beyond the realms of reasonable debate on here sometimes though.

I get the feeling that anything which is contrary to trans opinion/view of how things should be is transphobia.

x-post Ego

I have rtft, and others, but I still don't understand transgender... if sex organs aren't changed is it mainly dressing in gendered clothing? because I always thought that was transvestite... or is that something else as well?

And why does Transphobia not follow other phobias with its definition, it seems a little disingenuous using phobia but changing the meaning just for trans use, or have I misunderstood that too?

Happy hi-jacking.

I disagree that discussing whether fully male-bodied people like Lila Perry are acceptable in women only spaces is transphobic. Check out the zombie thread about the naked chap showering in an Edinburgh swimming pool to see how strongly some women feel about seeing an unclothed penis. Are they expected to shrug off their concerns because it's a 'lady stick' or 'female cock'?

Ego, are you serious? Using examples of transwomen's own words and actions is an example of hate speech? Citing statistics is transphobic?

Clearly you have been upset that posters here remain critical of transgenderism, but that is NOT the same as trans phobia. And to try to insinuate that respectfully disagreeing with you is a crime on par with racism and homophobia is quite shocking really.

Totally agree Midnite.

Rampant Transphobia my arse.

I can't bear the word cis, it's worse than gusset!

Why can't the trans people just go about their business without having to label everyone?

What is fucking am a ing ego_ and cash, is that there have been dozens, if not hundreds of threads on MN over the years about the c9nflict between trans-rights and womens-rights. YET* you still mis-represent and belittle the 'rad-fem' pov. Why is this? Do you fail to underztand it? Both of you ztrike me as intelligwnt, so i dont think that is the case