To be fed up of social conversations going like this...

[nevereverhaveiever]

To DH: what do you do for work? Oh that's very interesting. And where do you do it? And do you incorporate x and y in your work? Oh we must meet and chat about what our professions have in common. Did you see X story in the news regarding your profession? What do you think about it?

To me: Do you have any children? How old? Enjoying school? Good.

I work too! Nobody ever asks me what I do. I actually do a more objectively interesting job than DH. I am dying to tell someone about it but if they only ask me about the kids, I can't just volunteer it.

Any suggestions as to how I might steer people away from the children topic and be able to talk about my job with them and get a fully, fledged, interactive conversation at social occasions?

Katharina, I would have said the same at one point but my view has changed.

I am entering my 12th year of studying alongside working - I have a staggering number of specialist qualifications and a very highly developed skill set. I go to conferences to meet people who share my passion for my subject to talk with and also post on listservs and have various professional groups online where I can bore on about my topic to my heart's content.

When it comes to the kids, I am on the Board of Governors at school and I have various friends I amassed over the years from their various playgroups and class parties, and I talk about my kids with these people.

With random strangers, I don't really want to talk about myself at all or feel any great need to transmit Who I Am as a Person. I much prefer getting them to talk about themselves and finding out about whatever they're involved in.

Good conversations seem to flow when I find someone who has a similar open curiosity and where a natural balance emerges between our contributions, which happens sometimes and not at other times.

I find my career/study fulfilling but I don't enjoy talking about it with people in crude pen portrait terms really.

Fusion you're presenting it as a maturity thing but if you find your work interesting and fulfilling why wouldn't you want to talk about it? In the context of a balanced conversation I mean, not just you holding stage which is something I hear on trains a lot and it drives me mad (and it's almost always men )

But conversations need to be two-way, fusionconfusion. I can't bear talking to people who suck me dry of information without offering up anything about themselves. So, do you avoid talking to others about anything that they do, or about their families, so as to avoid having to talk about yourself? Tbh, it sounds a teensy bit patronising not to want to talk to others about what you do, because you are not interested in "crude pen portraits" and assume that's all that will come out of any conversation in which what you do with your time features.

I think London is full of more status obsessed bores! When I lived down there I worked for a major retail company, it wasn't IKEA, but for the purpose of this post I'll say it was. I worked on projects and not only had access to the board level in this country, but also to some extent the international management, and in particular people who would be making decisions about spending money with third parties.

If I was out at an event and someone asked me what I did and I simply said 'I work for Ikea', they would assume I meant I worked in a shop and 90% of the time that would instantly mean they lost interest straight away and made their excuses. If instead I said I worked on projects for 'IKEA' HQ and something about the type of projects they were then 90% of the time I would be deemed important enough to talk to.

I also found in London that people were much more likely to lie or exaggerate their profession to impress people. Most memorably a woman who looked right down he nose at me when she thought I worked in a shop, and loftily announced that she worked in marketing and promotions. Which I suppose was true in a way. I came across her a few days later holding a 'Golf Sale this way' sign in Piccadilly Circus.

That's what I'm saying. You offer a starter, like a hook for a fish, then you follow what you reel in e.g.

"So how do you know John?" "Oh we worked together in Oracle in San Francisco many moons ago". "Oh, you're an Oracle person too? Are you still there or did you move on?" blah blah.

That's very different to: "Hi, I'm Fusion, I'm a data protection advisor for a large security firm, and what is it you do?"

It's not about AVOIDING the topics, it's about not beginning the conversation based on trivialities, like conversation was some sort of elevator pitch where you had to give name, age, status and what you do on a day to day basis in the first few minutes of meeting someone. That's appropriate for business networking but not needed in normal social chit chat. You set it up so that you create the conditions for natural flow, which will or won't happen depending on the relative fit between speaker and listener. This is true no matter how you start a conversation.

I agree with Worra . You are not defined by your job and I would never ask the question. Unless you are something exciting like a stunt woman in films I can't see that it is anything except boring.

It's even worse when you're actually in a business context. I very recently attended a business meeting and one of the participants explained to me how to hedge currency risk, he didn't explain it to anyone else... just me...very slowly.

"Yes I know, I used to be the European treasurer for a FTSIE 100 company"

You'd think you'd either know the background of the people you're meeting or at the very least decide not to treat the only woman there like the least qualified person in the room rather than the most (which was the reality) as your default.

However in future I'm going with LillianGishes suggestion

"Actually I'm a bomb disposal expert"

I have no problem with no-one asking what I do UNLESS there is an assumption that I can't possibly do anything of any great value if there is a male in the room.

I think it's obvious too that we're talking about different social contexts here. There are definitely contexts where these questions are almost solely about establishing status, especially in London etc... I think the casual sexism is probably fairly rife in these contexts.

It's different if you meet someone at a wedding of a friend and you are genuinely interested in passing time with no agenda in terms of networking etc. It's more likely in those situations that you will ask the question in the flow of normal conversation as a way of keeping turns balanced and moving it forward.

Yes, probably talking about different social contexts. Personally, I wouldn't condemn someone for asking me what I do, or asking me if I have children, though. I would condemn them or otherwise on the basis of their response to my answer and follow on question to them! Asking someone about their family when you are plainly not interested in the answer even before it's been given is obviously offensive.

Your job or your children may well come into a conversation, if they are relevant but I can't see why either are used as openers.

blueshoes the reason I get asked about my work isn't that exciting, I run a small family business with my DH, and its a rural area so people tend to know of us IYKWIM even if we've not met before. TBH loads of people round here are self employed/run small businesses, so the default question if conversation slows is 'how's trade'.

"There are definitely contexts where these questions are almost solely about establishing status, especially in London etc... "

That's a really interesting point. I think an advantage of a rural area is that people already have you 'placed' (X's daughter, Y's auntie, on Z committee) so it's not such a big issue.

I think some people either just aren't very good at small talk and/or like to make others feel bad about themselves.

A few years ago I got talking to a woman at a friends birthday and it turned out we'd done the exact same course and the same uni a year apart...anyway this woman explained she worked in X 'but she wouldn't expect me to understand'...Of course I understood what she meant...we were only a few years out of uni and the course was directly related to the job! It makes me laugh now, she was just sooo snobby.

My conversational starters are always 'how do you know the host/ess?' and 'have you come far?' nice and gender/job neutral.

I am definitely going to start challenging everyday sexism more, a large Kristina and BOOP

I think people on here have got chips on their shoulders about That London. I've lived in London for years and do not feel that people ask about my job, or others', to place us in terms of status or value or how useful we can be.

Of course I come across the occasional person who clearly wants to know what they can or can't get out of me or use me for, but that isn't because I live in a particular place; wherever you go you'll find users.

Sadik, thanks for the explanation. That makes sense.

I have to agree with OnlyLovers, living and working as I do in London. People don't ask what you do, if anything are more guarded and afraid of offending. Or maybe it is just the circle I am in or I need to get out more.

I love this:

I always enjoy asking men who have children how they manage to combine work and family

This whole situation gives me the rage! One for Feminist Chat?

In my experience, there are no boring conversation topics, just boring people.

I like talking kids if people are funny and interesting and not just listing their children's achievements, or even worse, just listing Stuff Their Kids Do. Yes I have kids too I know what age they get potty trained or learn to swim!

I love talking work with people - I love my job, it's broadly speaking interesting to people and I don't think I'm boring about it!

I've never had the experience of only being asked about my kids I don't think - maybe it's because I'm from That Evil London and we're all Career Bitches

What is your job OP?

I certanily ask working fathers who looks after their children. It's important we do as they as much as women need to find someone to do so.
Some of the posts above put me in mind of:

Having spent a number of years as an expat wife, i found being asked what my dh did and thereby defining me and my social status disconcerting.

I have a co worker, he is rather sexist and refuses to discuss work with me and always says " so how are the DC? Even if I have just said " what's the status on xyz?" But he also calls me babe so I don't take too much notice of him tbh.

I'll put my hand up and say that I very often ask people what they do for a living. I really enjoy hearing about their jobs and how they got there particularly if it's an interesting area outside my experience. I met someone who works in counter terrorism over the weekend which made for a pretty interesting chat. We moved swiftly onto their dogs though since presumably said person gets bored talking about a job that they are probably not allowed to say much about...

I get bored talking about other peoples kids quite quickly but if that's all that the SAHP will talk about then I try to make an effort. Frankly there are worse things. I got trapped at a party once with someone who was 6 months into running a Forever Living concession [or whatever it's called]. Dear god that was excruciating especially as I was getting the marketing twaddle about working around your kids and I couldn't be rude to her even though her implied rudeness "Oh I couldn't work full-time" made me want to smack her one.

Anyway - what do you do OP?