To want to have my DD with me at Christmas, just once?

[wasonthelist]

This will be 4th Christmas since we split. I ask if dd could have Christmas at my house (at least wake up here) every year. Ex refuses every year.

Anhway, got a reply quicker than expected - a straightforward no. So time to go and see a lawyer.

These people might be helpful, wasonthelist: www.resolution.org.uk/mediation/

I won't be letting DS spend Christmas with my ex. But my ex doesn't pay maintenance and is incapable of organising a piss up in a brewery let alone caring for a child, so perhaps my situation is different

No reason at all? Never a reason?

No reason ever offered - if you find ghat hrad to believe, you've never met ex.

Thanks ponygirl, I will take a look.

Tali dd spends plenty of time with me and is properly fed and cared for, and I pay properly, so those aren't the issues, Ex is happy enough for me to have dd when it suits ex -indeed I have been told dd js beinv dropped off on 28th Dec for the week with me.

was then yeah your ex is being unreasonable. In my case it's the other way around, his dad only wants to know when it suits rather than be properly involved.

Good luck OP. Based on the information you've given she's being unreasonable.

Oddly, I have now had a follow up with a reason. Without wanting to go into too much detail on a public forum (poss a little late for that) it is apparently because their family only gets together at Christmas. Whilst this true up to a point (and mine are local) it doesn't mean dd couldn't join the fun on Boxing day or later on "my" Christmases.

Also dd and ex have visited family this year - although it is true Christmas is their only "convention"

It is not your fault that they only get together at Christmas and surely they aren't all only there for one day, they must extend into Boxing Day which would be the opportunity to see your daughter.

This year is the first time I don't have my son, he is 8, we split when he was 4 and have shared Christmas, ex would come to our place (even when I had met and moved in with new partner), last year we didn't have ex over and this year it is his turn. I feel sick sometimes thinking about not seeing him from the 22nd-27th but he will have a ball and get another Christmas Day when he gets back.

It's not the OP's "fault" his ex's family only gets together at Christmas. But it might be a good reason to try and find an alternative celebration to always host in return rather than hanging onto Christmas to make things "fair". Because a big family gathering can help build a supportive family network and traditions can be fun and rewarding.

It might be something to think about - whether there is an alternative the OP and DCs could enjoy more by doing it every year than Christmas every other year.

Exactly Chimpy, they are not only together for the actual day. Ex takes dd to visit and on hol to ex's mum every summer so not as if dd never sees them - albeit they are further away. There aren't hundreds of 'em anyway, just ex's mum, brother and his wife and child. That's it.

But it might be a good reason to try and find an alternative celebration to always host in return rather than hanging onto Christmas to make things "fair"

BoomBoom Why? Why should OP have to find an 'alternative'? Surely OP deserves the chance to 'build a supportive family network and traditions' around the Christmas holidays with him/herself and his/her extended family. Why shouldn't OP's ex find 'an alternative to enjoy more by doing it every year rather than Christmas every other year'?

Has she refused about Christmas or mediation or both? Sounds like she's given an excuse a reason for refusing your request about Christmas. But not about mediation? Have you pointed out that mediation is cheaper than solicitors?!

Tbh she sounds completely unreasonable so mediation would probably be a waste of time anyway. You really need a legal contract agreement that is set in stone and means that she can't decide to book things for DD on your weekend with her, or tell you you're having DD for X dates, without your prior agreement. She is calling all the shots and it's not fair.

She does sound unreasonable. To not even discuss it!

Fwiw we had a contact order, not just dates but exact times. It was up to us to organise Christmas/father's day/mother's day if it didn't fall on our times -always successfully managed this with no problems. However, they were always with me Christmas morning and he turned up about 11/12 and took them to free ice-skating - while I tidied up, get properly cracking with the lunch - and he brought them back about 3 for lunch. Next day they went to him when they surfaced and overnight, sometimes two days. It worked for us - which was a bloody miracle bcs nothing else did (see forensic contact schedule as an indicator).

One year I insisted they went to him for Christmas eve/morning bcs Christmas is just so exhausting - I rarely got more than 3 hours sleep Christmas eve (kids took an age to settle and had to wait for them to go to sleep so I father Christmas could place their stockings; then up at stupid o'clock to put in the Turkey) (

Across I don't mean the OP should have to. Just that if they can find something that would be better instead then it's a win all round.

Alternative Christmases sound like they would be a compromise for everyone. And compromises are lose-lose solutions, they try to make the loses fair, but they're still about giving up things you want. If there is an alternative that would be better than having every-other Christmas, then OP could be happier too (and I'm assuming the DCs). That's win-win. Sometimes we assume we need or want something just because it's what is "done" or because it's what some one else has. But if we can see past that, sometimes (not always) there's something better we could try instead and make it our own.

Ex is refusing mediation. I've already been told I won't see dd until 28th (at Christmas - our normal pattern applies until 22nd).

I think it's probably too late for this Christmas, but would be good to get something in place for next.

There's another aspect to this too. My aunt has everyone in the extended family around soon after Chistmas most years - dd hasn't been able to go there either since the split so she is missing a whole load of folk who would llve to see her and she'd love to spend time with.

I think you need to see a solicitor if she's refusing mediation. She's obviously not interested in compromising.

The law moves slowly. I'd suggest you start right away.

Boom I don't see compromise as a 'lose-lose' at all. That's the point of compromise, to work together for the most favourable outcome for both parties. And just because one party doesn't want to cooperate doesn't mean that the other party should slink away and make other plans. And a child sharing Christmas with BOTH parents, even on alternate years, is a win-win for that child. He or she will share wonderful times and traditions with BOTH sides of his/her family.

I might agree if this was a summer holiday or some random event in a child's life. But we're talking about arguably the most important family time of the year. A time that a child should spend with BOTH sides of the family, even if it's alternate years.

Across I totally agree that one party shouldn't slink away and make other plans because the other party won't cooperate. And I haven't suggested that would be good. I have only suggested thinking about whether there is something that could be better than every other Christmas.

By definition compromise is lose-lose: "A settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions". It's generally a lot fairer than win-lose outcomes (as the ex seems to have forced until now) but it minimizes loss as a way to stop conflict. It's not maximizing gain. The ideal for a negotiation is a win - win. Where you don't both give up a little, but find where your differing positions can complement each other. Instead of fighting over a scarce resource (in this case Christmas) you find something that is more than worth the trade. It can be a lot harder than compromise, but the outcome is way better.

But if the Ex won't even talk about it such issues are probably neither here nor there. You can't get a win - win out of someone who won't even talk.

Well I have now had an email from ex saying I will have to leave the house earlier on the two days when I put dd to bed. So she intends to cut down my access just for asking. I have an appointment with a lawyer for Wednesday.

Well, definitely see the solicitor.
But the change of weekdays could be a good opportunity not to make this all about Xmas, but just to neutrally say "OK, child arrangements aren't working now, things move on, let's get a new agreement in place."

Is it even remotely legitimate about weekdays do you think? Has her bedtime changed? Tbh, I'm pretty surprised at you going to the ex's house two nights a week - I'd not want that. Personally I'd drop the visits there in favour of proper time at your house. Then start as you mean to go on - refuse if she changes things on "your" days. Be careful though - my XH and I have quite flexible arrangements and that's good for us.

It's odd that she's seemingly taking the piss on some things, but letting you into her home two nights a week, which I wouldn't!

She seems to think it's some wonderful concession to be "allowing" me into her house - it wasn't my idea and I don't really care if I never set foot in there again. However she is trying to cut down my access as punishment for asking about Christmas.

I'd like to keep the weekday access if possible.

As for flexibility, we have a degree of that and I don't see why it couldn't remain. I have to travel for work on occasion and so does ex (much less often)

Is it even remotely legitimate about weekdays do you think? Has her bedtime changed?

Too much of a coincidence it's only been raised as soon as I mention Christmas - can't you see it's just an attempt to punish me for asking? No her bedtime hasn't changed.