To want to have my DD with me at Christmas, just once?

[wasonthelist]

This will be 4th Christmas since we split. I ask if dd could have Christmas at my house (at least wake up here) every year. Ex refuses every year.

How old is your DD? What does she want to do? To be fair after my parents split up we always (and still do) spent Christmas with my mum, not my Dad - none of us would have wanted to be away from her at Christmas. We would spend boxing day with my Dad. Maybe an arrangement like that would work for you?

I know when I was little (and actually still now to be honest) I really would not have wanted to spend Christmas away from my mum (don't know if you're male or female, just saying).

Micah the cost of the family system is atrocious and it's not something everyone can afford to use. Mediation can be better and (if things haven't changed) there are some programs to make it affordable, but it's no use if both sides don't go into it in good faith. Still that doesn't mean you can't continue to request and can't let your child know that you would love to have them anytime they want to come. It isn't just about where they spend Christmas while they're children. It's that they grow up knowing that they are actually wanted by both sets of parents.

Then she is being unreasonable. And if she won't cooperate voluntarily, your only recourse will be to go the legal route.

my ex had an affair and left us for OW, If he had kids at (alternate) xmases, he would have OW and kids on xmas morning and I'd have no-one ( no other family) Every year, I'd drive the kids to XP and OW mid afternoon and pick them up on boxing day/day after and then come home and cry.

That's very sad for you but largely irrelevant, I'm afraid.

You could meet someone tomorrow and not be alone.

That shouldn't be a factor.

I really don't understand - surely this should be about what the child wants rather than what the parents do?

I've seen quite a few threads where this has been assumed to be the case, the OP has been jumped on, then reveals herself to be part of a same sex couple and the sound of posters backtracking has been deafening.

Gender, race, religion, (dis)ability - should be mentioned if they are relevant. They are not relevant here.

maybebabybee but what children want is often predicated on what they are used to. And it's not really fair to put a small child on the spot and ask - can you imagine theur guilt?

My BIL went to court over access. Requested every other Xmas which was refused because his ex said that she was religious (absolute lie) and going to church with her family was the most important thing about Xmas. She offered instead for BIL to have him every Boxing Day for 2 nights. He felt he had no choice but to accept but is pretty gutted about it.

Micah

fair nuff! |I am not rich. But I would use my savings, my pension, I would do without holidays and have a shitty car if that what it took. I get your point but given that OP said he works and takes his kid away he might be able to go without for this. I hope that clarifies

anyway he has to try mediation first anyway which is hopefully loads cheaper

Barbarian I don't necessarily agree, based on my own experience of my life as a small child with divorced parents. I would have been utterly distraught not to be with my mum on Christmas day.

When my DC were younger they stayed with other parent 2 nights in every 10, by that argument it would have been 1/5 Christmases
We agreed between us that Xmas day would be with me as extended family also involved and that was what we had done prior to split
Boxing Day would be with other parent and their extended family (again previous tradition)
We agreed to revisit this when DC were old enough to decide of own volition
As DC grew older they spent less time with other parent as friends and social life took precedence but still stuck to Boxing Day as they did not want to upset the other parent, even though it was not what they wanted
Eventually it got shifted to New Year's Day, then just that they would meet up at some point around then
Now it changes yet again as they are adults with partners and try and be fair to everyone

I have to say this isn't uncommon, unfortunately.

Before my Ex and I split up, our 'tradition' was that we went to his parents from late morning to mid afternoon on Xmas Day, kids would open presents, his mum would do a few buffet type nibbles, then we'd come home and have our Xmas meal early evening (I have no family, his lived a 20 min drive away). Since we split, I've continued this as it worked well for all of us, and it means we both get to spend part of Xmas Day with the DC.

My bf also has DC, he has them 2 nights a week - when he got divorced (fairly recently) he was told that the courts would NOT make an order over Xmases, birthdays etc and it would be for the parents to arrange between them. His Ex is pretty ignorant and selfish, and has therefore elected to stick rigidly to the regular weekly contact arrangements at all times, including Xmas, birthdays, fathers days etc. It means that he won't get to spend Xmas with them for another 6 or 7 years. The DC are quite young, are reluctant to rock the boat, so whilst they'd probably like to see both parents on Xmas Day, it's unlikely they would speak up and say so.

maybe
"surely this should be about what the child wants rather than what the parents do?"

Surely you should understand how unfair and wrong it is to ask a child to choose between their parents? You said your parents were apart when you were younger, so I don't understand why you don't get it. What if you father had been upset and made you feel guilty that you chose to spend Christmas with your mother, or vice versa? My parents separated when I was very young and I always alternated Christmasses, as far as I can remember. I lived mostly with my mum and we did miss each other at Christmas but it was the only fair way to do it, and it was important for me to sometimes spend Christmas with my dad and his (our) family. If the Christmas arrangements had been my choice, it would have made the whole thing 100% more painful for me. When I became old enough to chose, I continued alternating, because it was clearly the fairest way. It got more tricky after I met DH, but at least I was used to the idea of sharing time at Christmas, which made it a bit easier for me to be with his family instead of mine.

another my Dad is a massive guilt tripper. He still is.

We were never asked to choose just to clarify, it was just decided that being at my Mum's on Christmas day was in our best interests. It was. We had a massive extended family there which we were used to be being part of, my Dad chose to move extremely far away from us, and the deal was that he had us boxing day. I don't see anything wrong with that. It wasn't like anyone sat us down and said 'who do you want to spend christmas with?'

My later experience has been is that if children, particularly young children, are unhappy with the christmas arrangements, they do tend to pipe up - ie my DN saying last year 'why don't I ever spend Christmas with Daddy?'.

I don't think it should just be decided on the child's behalf that 'every other christmas is fair', because to be honest in some cases (a) it isn't and (b) it isn't what the child in question wants.

What if you father had been upset and made you feel guilty that you chose to spend Christmas with your mother, or vice versa?

And that would so not have been a reason to spend every other christmas with him (or with my mum for that matter!) - would have been just giving in to his selfishness to be honest!

maybe I think you've got the wrong end of stick. I'm not criticising the way your parents organised things, it was clearly the right arrangement for you. And I'm not saying the arrangement should always be every other Christmas for every family. I'm just saying that it shouldn't necessarily be about what the children want. If you mean that their needs and best interests should be considered, of course I agree with you. But up to a certain age I think it should be the parents that make this decision (bearing the children in mind, and not being stubborn or selfish) and NOT the children. Hope that's clearer!

another I do get what you're saying, but my issue is that I think the 'every other christmas' arrangement is more for the parents than for the children, generally speaking.

Clearly in the OP's posts, for example, unless I've missed something, there's no indication that their DD isn't happy with the current arrangement - it's all about what he/she (the OP) wants.

My parents are divorced and I always spent Christmas Eve with one, having a special Christmas eve carpet picnic or whatever, and was then dropped off to the other one on Christmas Day. This meant that I still got to spend the first few hours of Christmas Day with one of them, opening presents etc and then go to the other parent's house for the Christmas meal and rest of the day. We alternated which way round it went each year. Worked pretty well!

maybe I see your point but I do agree with the PP who said that children will often want what they're used to. I also think parents do have a right to see their children, just as much as the children have a right to see their parents, so I don't think it's selfish for the OP to want to see his DD at Christmas. It's a balancing act of course, and the children should take priority, but that doesn't mean the parents don't matter at all.
I also think you're letting your personal experience cloud your opinion on the issue. There are many more people on this thread who said alternating worked/works for them. I've already said it doesn't have to be the right or the only solution for everyone. But I don't know why you're so against the idea for other people. Do you resent your father for moving so far away that it would have been difficult for you to see him at Christmas? Or am I reading too much into that? I did get the feeling from your posts that you're closer to your mum than your dad. In which case fair enough. But don't expect every dad to be happy with that!

Christmas can be so fraught because people get very entrenched in traditions (for example my sister feels obligated to go to her MILs every single year despite wanting to spend time with her own family. After 16 years she's only just thought of standing up to her partner and his mother about this).

I think it would be entirely appropriate for the separated parents of a child to have that child every alternate Christmas (barring unforeseens, eg sick relative it might be the last chance to see).

It is likely to be tricky to negotiate for you, but ought to happen. You have a slightly difficult time ahead attempting to change a tradition but once it's done it will seem normal to everyone. Of course it will be difficult for your ex, but a lot of things are more difficult for everyone in split families (including for the children) and she'll have to deal with it.

FWIW the same sister as above has always allowed her oldest DS to go to his father every Christmas in order not to have a big fight although they'd originally agreed on alternate (but like you, nothing written down in legal format), and she really regrets hardly ever having spent a Christmas with him now he's 17.

Good luck! It makes sense for everyone.

What is best for a child isn't necessarily alternating.
I'm voluntarily dropping my 7yo off for her third Xmas Day with XH, third of three since we split.
He has family locally - and this year, probably his GF and child. His mum is in her 80s so who knows how many Xmas dinners she'll be around for...
So, so far I've had Xmas Eve and dropped off at 11:00 on Xmas Day.
My XH doesn't feel he misses out on the waking up to presents excitement - she thinks Santa does a double drop so he gets the excitement too.
I think it's quite nice for her to have consistency rather than alternating - I like our Xmas Eve pub tradition
If you want to alternate Xmas that's your call... but please don't think it's the only fair or good way!

We do a wake up and spend day at one home then get's dropped off 3:30ish on Christmas Day for evening stuff at mine.

I'm not 'missing out' even though they're not here on Christmas morning because our evening family get together tradition is lovely. Ex isn't missing out because he gets the 'has he been' loveliness!

It's something you need to talk to your ex about so you're all happy. You'll have to approach it very carefully and make sure it's the right time to talk and in a non confrontational way though.

Good luck!

Do you resent your father for moving so far away that it would have been difficult for you to see him at Christmas?

No, I resent him for a whole host of other reasons which are neither here nor there on this thread really. I would have thought however to be honest it would have been a bit rich of him to demand having us on Christmas day when he couldn't be fucked with parenting duties the other 364 days of the year. Not saying that's the OP, but I do know a lot of Dads who are unfortunately like this.

Zzzzz I think that's a whole other potential can of worms. Both of us are from Christian families, neither of us is particularly observant/practising, but seeing my dd for Christmas surely shouldn't be subject to my faith (or lack of) should it?