Feel dreadful after really upsetting my parents but don't think IABU?

[Fieryfighter]

Warning... It's a Christmas post. I've spent every Christmas of my life at my parents, pre and post having children, when I was married I always went to them as ExH didn't celebrate Christmas. I usually go to theirs on Christmas eve and leave the morning after boxing day. My kids have often mentioned wanting to have a Christmas at home as they never get to be at their houhouse and I also would like to spend some time at my house, and I only live about 25 mins from them.

I was at my folks with ds2 yesterday and whilst talking about Christmas I mentioned that the boys had said they wanted to have a Christmas at home, and that the boys had mentioned this a few times over the years so I was thinking maybe we could have Christmas morning at home then go over to my folks later that morning. I want for a minute suggesting we don't go to them at all, just that we'd go over later Christmas morning.

Basically they got really really upset, sobbing and everything, dad saying that there was no point putting up a tree if we're not going to be there (I said every year I decorate my house and never get to spend Christmas there), that they might as well just go away for Christmas etc etc. My sister and her son will be there Xmas eve and Christmas day so they won't be along I couldn't placate then at all and ds2 (9) got upset and was crying. They said they were really stressed about their nightmare neighbours and the house not selling (neighbours are really vile) and they hate being in their house and just don't want to be at home and the only thing they look forward to is us coming over (we visit every week).

Anyway, horrible atmosphere cotinued, I popped upstairs for 5 mins thinking if I left the room they'd make an effort with ds2 but they just sat on sofa mum quietly sobbing taking between themselves, ds2 said in car on way home it was really awkward (wish I hadn't gone upstairs now but I really thought they'd buck up and play with him or something)

Anyway, when I came down they said it would need better if we left as it was no good for ds2 so we did. I did tell them very gently I really didn't mean to upset them but I thought they were overreacting then dad got angry again so we left.

They are very good at making me feel guilty and I usually do what they want tbh. My sister is a complete PITA and behaves dreadfully towards them with no repercussions so I'm there 'good' one who's always there for them.

I dont think the OP will ever be able to see her parents the same way again after this. My goodness, they rolled out every nuclear weopon in the arsenal over two hours?! All those really nasty comments that they fired at you? over two ... hours ..!

Hope you get some sort of final decision fairly soon fiery. You don't need this hanging over you; it's already made christmas this year bad enough.

Now you've gone through this once, Christmas'll almost certainly go a great deal easier in the next years. Either it won't happen again or you'll have stood your ground once and it'll be much easier next time.

I am wondering if the Aunt and Uncle have spoken to your sister who has rightly pointed out that she will be there Christmas Eve/Christmas Day so they are not alone and that you have offered to come over.

If I was going to someone's house for Christmas and there was all this weeping and wailing over someone else that wasn't coming, I wouldn't be feeling wanted either! I do feel a bit sorry for your sister in all this, she's not worth putting the tree and decorations up for at all?!

See, I think that even if you do go over for any part of Christmas Day your parents will behave dreadfully and spoil it for everyone. Sorry, but I think they will just go on and on about it as they are so childish.

I'm suspecting their attitude may be 'if you don't care enough about us to come Xmas eve then don't bother' :-/

Answer: I do care, we're coming late morning on Christmas Day. See you then.

Don't give them any options. Decide yourself that you're going to go, whether they agree to it or not, and whether they're likely to be awful or not (or even whether they'll be in or not!). The boys want to go. Not going just plays into their hands as it reinforces some ridiculous translation that you don't want to be there at all. Put up with stroppiness and evil looks for a bit, and when it all gets too much, leave, telling the boys you can't believe how silly they are still being and how you'll have a lovely evening back at home together.

The whole point of this is that you tell them what you're doing, right? So tell them, instead of waiting for replies.

Fiery you have really been through the mill.

I think others are right about DS's birthday though, and if you don't make contact they will just leave a gift on the doorstep and, if questioned, say they weren't invited, weren't welcome, you're keeping them from DS etc etc.

One option might be leave it til a week or so before DS's birthday and send something like ceebie's suggestion on the previous page:

"Mum, let's forget all this unpleasantness and upset. We'll come over for several hours on Christmas eve, and then we'll be back again late morning on Christmas Day. The boys are very excited about seeing you on Christmas Day so I hope that's ok. Love you and see you soon".

However, I would add an 'action' for them. "Let me know if you still want us to come over both days. If I don't hear back from you, I'll assume you don't." You do need some sort of agreement from them or they could just not let you in. However, you need to manage it so you are not opening up the discussion or waiting on them to provide (or not) a key part of the conversation.

This is all assuming you are prepared to smooth it over without an apology from them (and if you don't, fair enough) AND still cook their dinner etc etc. Girlywirly is right, this is an opportunity to change that too. But you might want to play a slower game. It's up to you.

If I don't hear back from you, I'll assume you don't

I'd go for "If I don't hear back from you, I'll assume you're happy with that plan". It's more positive, and forces them into either agreeing to your plan if they say nothing, or for them to actively decide to speak out and tell you not to come, which doesn't fit well with their position of being the victim. If you say "If I don't hear back from you, I'll assume you don't", it gives them the opportunity to say nothing and then play the victim when you don't turn up.

Be decisive and positive with them.

I agree with ceebie.

Also agree with ceebie, don't let them portray themselves as the victims again!

He did say they had to support mum and dad. Well, it's a shame about that since all that is doing is enabling and reiterating that your parent's are in the right etc, which is not really very helpful. Far better would be for him to tell your parents that they would support both them and you but that they are being completely unreasonable over all of this.

If you do still go over Xmas eve and before lunch on Xmas day, I predict lots of martyr looks, some tears, and a generally unpleasant atmosphere. Very nasty for all of you, but especially for your boys. Perhaps not though, maybe your parents will see sense over the next couple of weeks (was that a pig flying over?).

I just think the longer this drags on the worse it could get and the more entrenched they will get. That's fine if you are happy to possibly not see your parents for the birthday and for Christmas (and possibly longer term) - I get the feeling though that you would rather see them but not have them acting like drama llamas and spoiling things. I wouldn't want the stress of wondering what's happening about birthdays and Christmas in the weeks leading up to these events - they are stressful enough anyway. I think if you are calm and take control of the situation and deal with it now, hopefully birthday and Christmas will be sorted and pleasant.

The birthday could be a chance to see if they can be reasonable and not grumpy and humph, which would make my decision on Christmas. But it needs to be sorted now to get any ill feeling out of the way or they could ruin your Christmas with their theatrics.

maybe your parents will see sense over the next couple of weeks (was that a pig flying over?)

Or, given the topic, the Three Wise Men tramping across the bottom of the garden?

Completely agree with you re the risk of a nightmare Christmas meal, poisoned by heavy sighs and discreet tears or worse; I also worry that Fiery and the boys would be stuck for what to do about lunch if they had to leave

That's why I recommended an afternoon visit to avoid any of this ...

Could you maybe send an email along the following lines?

"Hi parents , I just wanted to confirm our plans for Christmas. As I understand it, we'll be coming to you on Christmas Eve, then we'll spend the night at home and come over to you again on Christmas morning at X time.

We are all looking forward to spending a happy Christmas day with you. However, I'm worried that there will be a resentful atmosphere as a result of our recent discussions. The boys and I are keen to make it a happy day, and I hope that you feel the same. I don't want the boys to feel as awkward and upset as they did on again, so I would appreciate it if you could make an effort to be cheerful for their sake. If I feel that they are being adversely affected by a bad atmosphere while we are with you, then I will take them home again.

I hope that this makes sense. Their happiness is of paramount importance to me and has to take precedence over that of any adult.

As I said, we're looking forward to coming over on Christmas Day and spending the day with you.

Love from fiery et al."

Edits are welcomed, obviously!

Oh and do cc in your aunt and uncle if you can (hidden).

La Contessa

That's not bad, I think this needs to be nipped in the bud for everyone's sakes. If I was the Op though I'd possibly be looking to scale back the amount of time spent at the parents over Christmas. I doubt I'd be there Christmas Eve and Christmas morning. That's if the parents are willing to behave of course.

That's good, but (as one of a family of never-fully-reading-stuff people) I'd shorten the middle bit to:
'We are all looking forward to spending a happy Christmas day with you. I don't want the boys to feel awkward as a result of our recent discussions, so I would appreciate it if you could be cheerful for their sake. If they are being affected by a bad atmosphere while we are with you, I will take them home again. '

Some great suggestions here as to what to say to the folks thanks everyone, I've decided to try not to worry about it til a week into December, that will be a week before ds2's birthday. Then I'm going to send a brief light hearted email saying well come on Xmas eve, then later Xmas day and as you've suggested, say I'll assume all is fine unless I hear differently.

I'm trying to think how to word it best in terms of 'if you don't behave we won't be staying as I don't want to sound threatening or confrontational, just nice and factual.

I'm also in two minds about the lunch issue as I don't want to be in a position of leaving without lunch if things go bad and the kids go to their dad at tea time so wouldn't be time to sort anything else.

I don't think they'd play up on the day, I do think they'll either go for broke and say we're not welcome if we don't come Xmas eve OR they'll play ball and behave (or maybe that's wishful thinking)

Oh and if LOVE to be able to cc aunt and uncle in but they live completly without computer/smartphone/internet!!

I'm also in two minds about the lunch issue as I don't want to be in a position of leaving without lunch if things go bad and the kids go to their dad at tea time so wouldn't be time to sort anything else

Buy a turkey crown or something easily cooked and pop it in the freezer for an emergency lunch. It's only a roast dinner really, after all.

I don't think they'd play up on the day, I do think they'll either go for broke and say we're not welcome if we don't come Xmas eve OR they'll play ball and behave (or maybe that's wishful thinking)

I think that you need to be very clear about what you're willing to tolerate. For some people my mother, sitting there with a face like a slapped arse but not actually complaining means that she has officially done nothing wrong. Your parents may be similar. You need to be clear about levels of moodiness.

LOVE to be able to cc aunt and uncle in but they live completly without computer/smartphone/internet!!

Print it off a few days beforehand and post it to them!

I'm trying to think how to word it best in terms of 'if you don't behave we won't be staying as I don't want to sound threatening or confrontational, just nice and factual.

To be honest, I wouldn't bother saying it at all, as it brings down your otherwise bright and cheerful e-mail. If they don't behave, you'll be perfectly entitled to up and leave, there's no requirement to issue them with a written warning about it in advance! They really ought to be able to work out that if they're making the day miserable, you're unlikley to stay. Definitely plan a contingency meal at home - I know it wouldn't be the same as a properly planned Christmas meal, but I bet that you and your kids will just be pleased that you're following your own wishes and not just doing as you're being instructed by your parents.

Or maybe just add "I hope we'll all have a lovely happy time together" so that the undertone is that good behaviour is expected without going into a lecture on it with consequences?

I really don't think that saying "I expect good behaviour" is actually very likely to put them in a positive mood and increase the chances of good behaviour. I think that the best chance of good behaviour will be if you have a positive and cheerful outlook on the day and pretend that none of this bad feeling ever happened, so that hopefully they will follow your lead and put it behind themselves too.

I would insist on pretending that everything is hunky-dorey and the plans are all agreed, and hope that they tow the line

They really ought to be able to work out that if they're making the day miserable, you're unlikley to stay.

I politely disagree there, ceebie - if they had that level of self-awareness then I doubt that it would have got this far! Some adults are painfully childish in situations like this and need to be told.

Maybe a verbal warning would be better, op? Bright and breezy and 'We're all going to have a LOVELY time and no silly atmospheres or sulking, aren't we, boys?'

i wouldn't tell them you expect them to behave because that would be like treating them like children. which they are behaving like. treat them as you would like them to behave - like grown ups.

i would put some special treat type snacks in the boot of the car for if it goes pear-shaped and a pizza in the freezer.

agree with your dh that if it isn't fun you're just going to tap your nose and the lot of you sweep off into your car for your parma violet fuelled trip home.

I'd want to get it sorted out beforehand for peace of mind if I were you. I would phone or email and say 'we are really looking forward to seeing you on Christmas day at x time, but please be aware that I won't let the boys be exposed to any more unpleasantness. I'm assuming that, for the sake of the children, we can all put any differences aside for the day.' As you have assumed that, it is up to them to let you know if they can't behave like civilised adults and you can say 'well, I did tell you I wouldn't let the boys be upset so I'm afraid we will have to leave now'.

They are behaving like children, they really are. Unfortunately, you will have to make your expectations crystal clear, IMO. I agree with LaContessa that they don't seem to have sufficient self-awareness to realise that you will up and leave if they are arsey.

Leave it at that. But you have given them fair warning that you aren't going to put up with all the nonsense. And do get something nice for the freezer or something with a long date you can eat another day. Ready made yorkshires/roasties, stuffing, a chicken/piece of beef and some veg will only take an hour or so to cook in an emergency and you can lay in a good stock of crisps and nibbles just in case it all goes tits up and you have to wait for your lunch.

I agree with wording it along the lines of "I'm sure we'll all have a lovely, happy time", rather than 'hoping' you have one. Subtle difference.

But you may have to have a 'talk' ahead of time if you are feel that your folks won't be able to be 'gracious' about this, and that another scene in front of the kids would happen if things don't go well & you said you were leaving. If they can't be trusted to keep a promise to at least put on a show in front of the kids, you'll have to make it clear that there will be consequences. Frankly I'd call to talk about this as it'll be much easier to gauge their reactions.

As far as leaving, if you see things starting to go South I'd probably have a quiet word before the children notice, if you think that might stop them. Something like "Now, we agreed to have a lovely day and let bygones be bygones" (lovely smile). But you'll also need to have an 'exit strategy' in mind.

You could cook a ham on christmas eve for general eating over the next few days, and serve slices with roast potatoes etc in an emergency.

I would leave out the bit about the children's happiness being more important than the adults' too. That could so easily get twisted into "you told us you don't care about us any more".

I meant it more as 'I am not upset by this as you are clearly behaving like idiots however the boys are younger and more easily upset', but I see your point, Cressandra.