To not go to my cousin and cousin's wedding

[Refuse]

NC as I've posted quite a bit about this relationship over the years.

Two of my first cousins have organised a Christmas wedding and I refuse to attend it out of principle. There are millions, if not billions, of suitable partners for these two so why choose each other. We are all first cousins!

My parents, aunts and uncles and my siblings all intend to attend but I won't be moved. I know it probably won't make a little bit of difference to them (my cousins) but I can't go knowing full well how much I disapprove of their relationship.

My immediate family feel similar to me but will go regardless. They want me to attend and in truth there is nothing stopping me from going other than my dislike for their relationship. I know it's not unreasonable to not attend a wedding but I just had to get this out now that invites have come along.

Shut - i never said its literally the same, i said it's compareable to.

Not - yes it does. I'm saying that if your parents are siblings, your biological relationship is not that different to what it would be if you yourselves were siblings.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree.

But McColonel, given that it is legal, and that the medical risks are pretty low provided there's no known genetic issues or repeated cousin marriage, does it just come down to 'ick to marry someone you grew up with?'

In which case, isn't this context-specific? Marrying someone you grew up with = slightly odd. But I have something like 30 cousins, the majority of whom I barely know (some I have never met); really can't see why it would be odd if I married one of them, given the absence of genetic problems in my family. And my dp is from a small island where, basically, everyone is a cousin of everyone else. If people were too ick, they'd never get married.

For me, medical risks, having grown up with someone and legality are all irrelevant.

It comes down to a fundamental instinct to not want to have sex with a close blood relative. Clearly most of you do not have that same instinct though which is fine, I'm just astounded by it.

The risks of birth defects are absolutely huge, very underplayed.

They say the risk of birth defects is doubled; from what I can see in my home town it is much higher.

I know of many people in my community with significant birth defects that can only be attributed to incest marriage; often for several generations.

My family's not really the get-together kind.

When my sister and I met one of our cousins for the first time in years - since he'd been a gawky teenager - we noticed each other trying not to swoon visibly. He is gorgeous! We had to run outside to tell each other repeatedly we were not 'wrong' but coming on to him would be 'weird'

As PP have said, it's not the done thing because repeatedly breeding through cousins will increase the chance of hereditary defects being expressed. In the rare family lucky enough to have bloody marvellous genes throughout, that would also be expressed - what do you think 'thoroughbred' means in horses, for example?

It's been common in 'developed' countries until quite recently, and still is in isolated communities. If there's limited contact with other people, what're you gonna do? I like this story: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Fugates

I would never marry my cousin. If any of my children decided to marry their own cousin I would think it was fucking weird. And I know my brother would think so to! I to am surprised at how many are fine with it.

Living in Ohio, I've always heard of the blue people of KY (KY is our neighbor). First cousin marriage is actually illegal in KY, as it is in OH, and about half of the other states.

For me, it feels wrong and "icky," but I was raised where it is illegal and thus taboo, so that may color my opinion.

I to am surprised at how many are fine with it.

Me, too. But I didn't realize it was legal there. Marrying your cousin is a huge joke here, a dig at people being backward. Like calling someone a redneck or a hilljack or similar.

Glad mumsnet are not representative of the real world?
Well clearly those who make the laws also happen to agree.
No having sex with your cousin would be like a sibling, no it really wouldn't.
Yes it's stated birth defects are doubled however it's also said that this includes first cousins whose parents were also related etc

Oh yes because there are a lot of us saying we want to have sex with are cousins here aen't there?
More likely people who wouldn't do it themselves but wouldn't cut someone they loved out of their lives for choosing to live their life differently to how they would.
My instinct is not to be so ignorant towards people living their lives differently to how i choose to.

I live in a country where it is not uncommon for cousins to marry. There are a lot of children here born with genetic disorders. We also have one of the highest autism rates in the world, although I don't know if there is a connection. Maybe there is, if autism has a genetic link.

ChilliAndBint
I think most of Europe don't allow this
According to this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#The_Netherlands "Only Austria, Hungary, and Spain banned all cousin marriage throughout the 19th century, with dispensations being available from the government in the last two countries." So it was still legalised when it suited them...

There's a map in the link showing the current status re the legality of cousin marriages around the world - i think you will find it enlightening.

My friend had an arranged "marriage" at 14 in Pakistan.... alas she is in denial as it is the norm for her family. Maybe 'denial' is the only expression she is allowed - did you think about that? There was - and probably still is - fuck all she can actually DO about it given her situation.

but being British we can't be seen to question the morality of other peoples cultures Well....we CAN but NOT without questioning and analysing the morality of the British - and specifically that of the Royal Family....and subsequently the rest of European royalty considering how interbred they are.....
Funnily enough we DO manage to question the human rights of other countries whilst still developing and maintaining trade deals with the very same regimes we are 'questioning'.....

Meh I echo pp's.... You shouldn't go and ruin a a happy day with your silly attitude

I always love it when people say "makes me so sad" .....awwww it's one step off of "won't someone think of the poor little children"

Phrases that make us sensible rational adults roll our eyes and thank every deity or none that we don't have to put up with that passive aggressive rubbish

Stay away .... You've been wanting them to break up you lost.... Accept it and retire gracefully

I m ust say why is everyone getting so upset about two grown a** pp business That's what's wrong with the world today if these two people getting married isn't directly affecting the way any of uspay our bills or feed our families than why should it bother anyone so much!!!! Are there any children or animals being hurt in the process? And furthermore refuse if you've made up your mind not to go then it's your prerogative you have that right just stick to your convictions and choose a side As far as ever one else whose trying to start a war over this chill out the wedding is happening and those pp don't even know we exist ????????

I briefly worked in a special school....It wasn't deemed " politically correct" to discuss this issues during working hours I should bloody hope not - what if your conversations were overheard by pupils or parents?!

but in private everyone was in agreement that cousin marriage should be outlawed Considering you were all working very closely with people suffering from "extreme" consequences of inter cousin marriage i can understand why you would all have such an extreme view.

my community comprises asian/pakistani (by birth) AND other British/Caucasian (grew up in UK from age 2). My birth community is heavily saturated with asian inter cousin marriages, as is the NW town i grew up in - yet i've seen more cases of genetic 'abnormalities' in the other British/Caucasian communities than i have in the asian. We had ONE 'special school' in our town for the 'abnormal' (as they keep being referred as ), i made two exchange visits to that school, once when i was in Junior school and the next when i was 14, on both those occasions the majority of the pupils were Caucasian, there was only one asian lad there the first time and there were five on the second visit....and my town is one of those that gets referred to as an asian 'ghetto'.
In my wider life i have come across more incidents of genetic abnormalities in people who fit the other British/Caucasian description than the asian.

I live in a culture where the indigenous population marry their first cousin all the time. It's politics and will need to be addressed at some point due to long term cousin marriage hurting the health of their population.

In this case though, this hasn't happened. It's a one off. They love each other and they are part of your family.

You are behaving like a self righteous bitch, and you will be hurting them.

I'd say as its legal where you are just keep your trap shut and don't go if it bothers you so much.

And thank you for giving me the opportunity to educate myself about the laws regarding marriage between cousins where I live. I had assumed it was illegal (a felony) in the entire US because it is in the two states where I have lived with adult memory. But where I was born, in California, it's perfectly legal to marry your first cousin!

i think we need to be careful to separate the genetic links to abnormality from the racial ones....because some of the posts i've read on here play right into the hands of racists and xenophobes - especially when the emphasis is placed on the asian/pakistani link, as though arranged/inter cousin marriages ONLY happen with them...but then i guess people don't want to talk about the jewish in the same vein in case they get labelled anti-semites or politically incorrect, and forget about the Caucasian/Christian link because...well, they're white and christian

Here's an educated and well informed view re the inter cousin marriage theory from scientists who have studied this in depth. To paste a quote from this link: phys.org/news/2008-12-cousin-marriage-laws-outdated.html

(Professor Hamish Spencer - an evolutionary geneticist - & Professor Diane Paul) "these laws should be repealed, especially in America, where he said they were drafted in a way that discriminated against the rural poor and immigrants: "Neither the scientific nor social assumptions behind such legislation stand up to close scrutiny. Such legislation reflects outmoded prejudices about immigrants and the rural poor and relies on over-simplified views of heredity. There is no scientific grounding for it."

Dear Lord

The thread really kicked off with all the americans (presumably) kicking in.

I assume that first cousin marriage is illegal in many US states because of the high rate of inbreeding in some communities. Either geographically isolated communities, or specific social groups, such as Ashkenazi jews, mormons, and many small(ish) sects.
In any case, it's permitted in many states, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage_law_in_the_United_States_by_state

The risk is certainly higher in groups where first cousin marriage is common (for those who have actually bothered to read the thread), but not that great in the general population if cousin marriage is not common.

It may come as a shock to some more recent pps, but it's allowed throughout most of the world, including Europe (see blue in the map)

phys.org/news/2008-12-cousin-marriage-laws-outdated.html

"The US National Society of Genetic Counselors (NSGC) report estimated the average risk as 1.7 - 2 per cent higher than the background population risk of congenital defects and 4.4 per cent higher than general risk for dying in childhood.
"Women over the age of 40 have a similar risk of having children with birth defects and no one is suggesting they should be prevented from reproducing. People with Huntington's Disease or other autosomal dominant disorders have a 50 per cent risk of transmitting the underlying genes to offspring and they are not barred either," Professor Spencer says."

Lweji you pinched my link!

Right - that's IT! she says in her best liam neeson impression I'm gonna find you.....and i'm gonna marry you!

I'm so sorry. I hope we are not first cousins.

well...not first cousins but still technically 'family' via Adam & Eve

or via the bonobo chimps - whichever route you prefer....i'm easy

I think you ought to be happy for them. That said, I do think it's odd the cousin marrying is legal. It's fine as a one off, but I live in Bradford which has a far, far higher case of learning difficulties and health issues caused by inter-marrying in the Asian community.
I realise this is a separate issue.