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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not go to my cousin and cousin's wedding

570 replies

Refuse · 05/11/2015 14:07

NC as I've posted quite a bit about this relationship over the years.

Two of my first cousins have organised a Christmas wedding and I refuse to attend it out of principle. There are millions, if not billions, of suitable partners for these two so why choose each other. We are all first cousins!

My parents, aunts and uncles and my siblings all intend to attend but I won't be moved. I know it probably won't make a little bit of difference to them (my cousins) but I can't go knowing full well how much I disapprove of their relationship.

My immediate family feel similar to me but will go regardless. They want me to attend and in truth there is nothing stopping me from going other than my dislike for their relationship. I know it's not unreasonable to not attend a wedding but I just had to get this out now that invites have come along.

OP posts:
SmokeAlarmsSaveLives · 05/11/2015 16:57

Either go and be happy for them or stay well away! I know a couple who are first cousins, it is a bit unusual but they have been happily married for 28 years and have two lovely children. Just because you don't understand their relationship doesn't make it a mistake!

I think the biggest looser in all this is going to be you.

Alisvolatpropiis · 05/11/2015 16:57

Moving

all Royal houses throughout Europe have historically inter-bred. That didn't work out so well for quite a few of them.

The Royals have quite a few norms which don't translate to the norms of the common people and besides they're just one family (a bit more literally than is strictly speaking necessary).

First cousin marriage isn't a cultural norm in the uk, with the exception of a couple of religions. It isn't 1650 and we don't only have about 20 eligible people in the village to choose from.

Onthepigsback · 05/11/2015 17:00

The fact that it is legal may not mean automatically that it us acceptable but the fact that it us legal, not harming anyone and none of anyone else's business certainly makes it acceptable. Why the OP thinks she should have an opinion on this is beyond me.

ravenAK · 05/11/2015 17:00

My dd2 is deaf. I do hope that doesn't mean STBXH is secretly my cousin. I'm not even convinced the bugger is the same species as me Confused Grin.

I do have a cousin I have had a massive crush on since I was 11 & he 16. Nothing has ever happened, but more than 30 years on...oh yes. I definitely still would.

However, he was adopted as a baby so we aren't genetically related (although weirdly people have been commenting all our lives that we look like siblings).

Am I allowed a crack at him, should the chance ever arise? Is it the shared genes or the shared childhood that is ick? .

FuzzyWizard · 05/11/2015 17:01

Alis- good point... Charles II of Spain is a really sad example of the end result of a culture that normalised cousin-marriage.

Onthepigsback · 05/11/2015 17:01

Is is is. Sorry for my annoying fat fingers.

kali110 · 05/11/2015 17:02

Still no certainty that it caused it.
Children of first-cousin marriages do have a doubled risk of genetic disorders (although scientists state that it's relatively small at 6% compared with a 3% risk for children whose parents are not genetically related to each other.

Although i've never got with my cousin, i wouldn't judge nor lose my friend or relative over it.
I can understand some people don't like it, it's the few really disgusting replies that are not on.

Maryz · 05/11/2015 17:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kali110 · 05/11/2015 17:05

ravenAK
I have genetic Health problem, 100% sure my parents were not related Hmm

JeanneDeMontbaston · 05/11/2015 17:05

Hmm We all know what you're trying to hide, raven.

Wink

alis - yeah, but it's the 20 people in the village to choose from that's the problem, not the cousin-marriage in isolation.

Even the modern research looking at disability is very hard to unpick, because, the cultures and families for whom this is a common practice, are cultures that are trying to stay closely tied in. You can't study cousin-marriage in isolation very well.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 05/11/2015 17:05

I didn't speculate on the success of that (Hanoverian jaw anyone?!) I just said it wasn't new and asked why it would be more of an issue for someone in their 80s now as you asserted Alis.

MaidOfStars · 05/11/2015 17:05

Approximately 3% of UK births are to parents of Pakistani origin. They account for a third or so (see below) of the total number of children born with genetic disorders. Over half of people from the Pakistani community are married to first cousins (or closer).

These are not controversial data and a simple Google search will generate much reading material.

I work in medical genetics in a city with a large Muslim community. We have a very active clinic.

The absolute risk of genetic disorders in children from first cousins is around 4% (and this is the figure we quote to first cousin couples who have no history of any genetic disorder). The background level in the UK is around 2%. Therefore, the actual risk - 4% - is not huge, but the increase in risk is 100%. So, we see varying reports of how serious an issue it is.

There is evidence to suggest that the incidence of genetic disorders in the children of consanguineous parents is underestimated, particularly those which are difficult to define as a specific genetic disorder e.g. a learning disability. This is thought to be for two reasons. First, is somewhat hidden by the socioeconomic benefits of marrying a first cousin, such that one can more easily afford things like extra learning support and private tuition. Secondly, in the absence of severe physical symptoms (and sadly, sometimes in the presence of these), there can be a tendency for family groups to close ranks. When clinicians go out into the community, they uncover far more children with genetic abnormalities than they have "on the books" at a hospital unit.

First cousins share 12.5% of their DNA. This is an odd stat to quote because obviously, they share closer to 100% of their DNA as human beings. The 12.5% figure represents the DNA that comes from the same ancestral source, rather than just being coincidentally the same because we are the same species. Anyway, this means that children of those parents have approx. 6.25% of their DNA that is from the same ancestral source. This is a huge amount. It zings out at us when we analyse DNA samples. It's unmistakeable and, to be honest, quite conceptually shocking. And it's the source of recessive genetic disorders (contrary to PPs above, the incidence of dominant genetic disorders in these children - where one parent may have passed a dodgy gene down - isn't any higher, IIRC).

First cousin marriage, from a clinical genetics POV, has underpinned the entire discipline for decades. There is no way we would have even half the knowledge we have now if it weren't for first cousin marriage.

But that's not really a good reason to allow it to continue. In my genetics view, first cousins are a little too close for children. As a liberal, I wouldn't stop anyone marrying a first cousin if they wanted to (but perhaps that isn't quite the case in these communities). As a pragmatist, I doubt you could stop it anyway - people would lie about family relationships (although, as I say, it would become apparent the first time we see their DNA). I have spoken personally to various people within the community and the risk is becoming more and more a topic of open discussion, and I think that's the right way forward - information, education and allow people to adapt accordingly.

MaidOfStars · 05/11/2015 17:08

As for the OP, I think it's "ick" but I would never use that as a barometer for what people should be allowed to do. What a bizarre concept.

Refuse · 05/11/2015 17:08

It matters because I'm losing someone very close to me. expatinscotland why not just report the thread instead of troll hunting?

OP posts:
ChocolateFuzz · 05/11/2015 17:09

You have acknoledged that your attendance won't change a thing expect destroy your relationship with both of them if I were you I wouldn't sacrafice that because "It just fells wrong"

OliviaBenson · 05/11/2015 17:10

But it's your choice to lose her! She quite clearly wants to remain friends, you don't.

Refuse · 05/11/2015 17:10

munkisocks I agree but I'd say it's not hate. It's sadness. I know my family are going because it's family and all that but it still doesn't make what they are doing even in the realm of acceptability.

OP posts:
MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 05/11/2015 17:10

You're not losing OP. You're throwing away someone close to your because of your own prejudice. That's quite sad and I hope you don't live to regret it :(

AcrossthePond55 · 05/11/2015 17:11

OP, I have a question for you; neither my mother nor her sister were able to have children so they (and their DHs) adopted two children each. Myself & my (non-bio) brother, and my two cousins (non-bio related boy and girl). So would you still object if one of us married a cousin? There are 15 of us altogether (4 of us adopted). We would share no 'blood' with any of them, so would that be ok with you?

Exactly what is your objection? The 'genetic risk' or the 'familial relationship'?

EssentialHummus · 05/11/2015 17:11

Great post Maid

cheesetoastiesrule · 05/11/2015 17:11

Ewwww OP I have to say I agree with you. It's all very well pp saying you shouldn't judge, and it may not be illegal, but the thought of DD and my nephew having a sexual relationship when they're grown up is just too horrible for words. They're such close relations. I don't know anyone who would think this was normal.

Alisvolatpropiis · 05/11/2015 17:12

A pp (whose name I didn't bold because my post was general not directed at them) mentioned their grandparents being first cousins and it not being an issue in "their day", Moving.

RTFT.

MrRobot · 05/11/2015 17:12

It sounds like you're the one making a mistake OP, not your cousin.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 05/11/2015 17:12

maid, forgive me because I am ignorant. But - how do you separate out the evidence? My understanding was that a lot of data about cousin marriage comes from communities where this is common (eg. British Pakistanis). But then, those are communities with a long history of marrying close relatives.

How does it compare if a cousin-couple from that group marry, and if the child of (for example), an English woman who married a Nigerian were to marry her cousin, the son of an English man who married a Chinese woman? Is the risk statistically still exactly the same?

Booyaka · 05/11/2015 17:15

It's only really an issue if couples keep on intermarrying. So unless they're part of a culture where that's the case I don't know why you're getting your knickers in a twist.