Use of child death as an analogy for sense of loss should be punishable by wearing a dimwit hat for ever more

[wibblies]

Fucking Liz Fraser in the weekend guardian is the latest in a long line of journalists and writers who seem to think this is ok.

Here's a sample of what she has to say in her article about her sense of loss in watching her children grow from primary age into teenagers:

"When the joy goes - and it does, because life moves on and you can’t play peek-a-boo with a 12-year-old who wants to play Minecraft with his similarly zit-infested mates – it feels like bereavement."

"Those young children are dead now. They are gone."

"The bereavement is long, slow and refreshed every day."

Just so you know, Liz Fraser, watching a child grow up as it gets older is really not anything like not watching a child grow up because the child is dead. I know this, because I've tried them both.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who notices this shit? Please tell me you recognise that it's not the fucking same at all? That it's not even a tiny bit similar and that it's crass in the extreme to suggest it?

Yes I guess, sadly, the more we get rightly angry and upset, the more of a martyr she will become. She doesn't get it. She won't get it. She is hurt and distraught. We are trolls. Her supporters are super lovely sweeties. We are bad people. End of :(

I agree with stopfuckingshouting. She's a numpty for not listening but she can't be in any doubt about what mumsnet thinks of her. Is it really worth wasting the energy on her trying to get a proper apology that won't come?

I think the best response is supporting wibblies, MrsD and others in sharing their stories as blog posts and newspaper articles. Those people are actually worth listening to.

Can I be mildly amused by your use of fxxk given your user name?

I agree about not having a twitter shit fest, Stop, but I think there has to be some sort of solidarity from MN about what has happened. I think it's just a little too easy for Justine to keep saying that things like this are best ignored. As a bereaved mother, I'm absolutely fed up of thing like this being ignored, and I think that to have been blocked by Liz Fraser for a fairly innocuous tweet to her and then see her tweeting about trolls and haters, etc. (saw it by not logging into Twitter) really twists the knife.

I have sent Ms Fraser a very carefully drafted e-mail and hope that she is polite enough to reply.

I keep forgetting my sweary username

SootyShearwater-
I hate hate hate reading posts from bereaved parent that have tweeted her and been blocked, it twists my heart and I wish it wasn't happening

sorry - I feel really impotent on this issue, and I just don't think more twitter is good for some souls that are very battered anyway

she really needs to fucking get off twitter and LISTEN to what people are saying

Stop, I think your post was meant well - I hope so anyway. But you've just done what people so often do - you don't want to hear about bereaved parents as it twists your heart. What do you think has happened to the hearts of all the bereaved parents? I'm not getting at you, just trying to point out what I was actually saying. Please don't wish us away because you find it upsetting. Sometimes, and in my case, very rarely indeed, we find the courage to say what is actually in our hearts and it is so nice when someone, somewhere listens and acknowledges it, rather than just wantkng us to keep quiet.

sooty I think stop meant they don't like reading the posts from bereaved parents about being blocked by LF rather than posts from bereaved parents, full stop.

She needs to learn the difference between someone directly communicating their dislike of something she has written and a troll and online abuse, which are very different things. I know certain people do get lots of abuse on twitter, but some people in the public eye also seem to cry wolf about it, when all they have had is some constructive criticism.

I understood that, Hippo. I am just trying to say that, despite my certainty that Stop meant well in her post, it is a fact of being bereaved that people recoil when you mention it, which is why, in real life and indeed on forums, I almost never mention anything about it. I understand that it might twist someone's heart to read bereaved parents' posts saying that they have been blocked by the odious woman on Twitter, but what has happened in my life makes me feel bad enough without it being pointed out that, in expressing my own view, I have caused upset to someone else. I'm probably not explaining this very well, but I hope you might get what I'm trying to say.

sooty! I am dismayed you read that as that's so NOT what I meant.

I don't want you to keep quiet ! au contraire

I just hate reading that twitter-journalist has blocked you- or ignored peoples messages as she is in such a strop. That's all

She might be more concerned about emails to [email protected]

Or she might not

I do understand what you're saying, Stop, and I've tried to explain what I mean in my most recent post, but I don't want to labour this as I am certain you meant well. Perhaps I'm just feeling particularly sensitive at the moment, but yesterday's events just tweaked a nerve with me. I'm even more annoyed now as that awful woman is STILL going on and on about '24 hrs of online hate' but at least there are still NICE people. I think I might need to just try and leave this behind as she will wind me up more and more and I don't have any power to respond to her.

OK, I see what you mean sooty. I did not express myself very articulately.

sorry

Oh just saw you latest of 16:54:03

Yes. this has stirred up feeling for people and I want it to stop- that's what I was clumsily trying to say. Its like its not bad enough that people have to carry their grief, then their noses are getting rubbed in it due to this debacle.

And she clearly wont stop - so maybe you need to take a step back.

I will stop now before I put my foot in it!

I'm astonished that she does stand up, to be honest, as her response to a hostile reception to her article (which is what it is, rather than trolling or abuse) is not what I would expect from a stand up comedian (have known a few) who are far more robust at dealing with criticism and disapproval. They have to be. It is disingenuous to refer to it as trolling. And I am disappointed MN haven't even (as far as I can see) defended the right of their users to express their opinion on the article, which is that I can generally see people doing.

*She's still being a twat on Twitter.
I can only think she is a mate of Justine's or something.

I don't understand the silence on HQ's part towards LF.
Someone as influential and as articulate as Justine could put her in the place she deserves in an instance.

Very very odd.*

This. I agree totally, Confused. I really think that MN and Justine in particular should have shown some solidarity with the posters on here. I'm not suggesting a Twitter 'shitfest', just some sort of polite but firm challenge to Liz Fraser on her pathetic, childish, unpleasant behaviour since the tweets about how upsetting her silly article was. MN are very down on troll-hunting on here, but they don't seem very concerned about those of us who tweeted LF in a reasonable manner and were rewarded with being called trolls .

Thank you for the , Stop. You're not putting your foot in it to you too.

Oh dear, looking at all the posts I've made in such a short space of time, I seem to have found my voice! I think I'll shut up now!

The fact that according to her book titles, she is a self-styled Yummy Mummy tells me all I need to know.

I'm emailing [email protected]

I think Liz owes all of you an apology. On the Guardian website. In big letters. I also think they should take down her article.

Good idea Hearts.

Once again, it's her reaction to criticism which is the big one.

Even now she's playing the victim repeatedly. People on her feed who haven't seen this thread would assume we were making death threats. They'd also assume it was her article which provoked anger, and not her callous responds.

Horrid woman.

*responses

Yesterday, word of the day was metaphor. Today's word, is irony.

Yes, she's a proud member of this website's blogger network.

What I don't get at this point is why someone close to her (or professionally involved) hasn't told her just to shut up if she can't be nice. Just to stop and be quiet for a while.

Any PR professional knows this. One courteous response, and then silence for a while.

This makes me think she can't be a friend to someone at the top of Mumsnet - surely she'd have been dropped a quiet hint by now?