Use of child death as an analogy for sense of loss should be punishable by wearing a dimwit hat for ever more

[wibblies]

Fucking Liz Fraser in the weekend guardian is the latest in a long line of journalists and writers who seem to think this is ok.

Here's a sample of what she has to say in her article about her sense of loss in watching her children grow from primary age into teenagers:

"When the joy goes - and it does, because life moves on and you can’t play peek-a-boo with a 12-year-old who wants to play Minecraft with his similarly zit-infested mates – it feels like bereavement."

"Those young children are dead now. They are gone."

"The bereavement is long, slow and refreshed every day."

Just so you know, Liz Fraser, watching a child grow up as it gets older is really not anything like not watching a child grow up because the child is dead. I know this, because I've tried them both.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who notices this shit? Please tell me you recognise that it's not the fucking same at all? That it's not even a tiny bit similar and that it's crass in the extreme to suggest it?

I read that piece late last night, just before I went to bed. I was like this and . Had a chat with dh about it this morning. We both agreed that she sounded like a miserable individual (hated her life when her children were little, hated it, and doesn't like it now that they are teens either).

That particular phrase "those children are dead now, gone" struck me as hateful and ridiculous. I actually felt sorry for her children (which one doesn't usually say on Mumsnet). I shan't tweet her or even read through the whole of this thread, just wanted to say I'm another who thinks she wrote extremely insensitively when you consider the many millions of parents who, tragically, are not seeing their children grow up because they have actually died.

I can only guess at how awful it is to lose a child. It filled me with terror when I thought we'd lost our ds. Thankfully the doctors saved him. It was like standing on the precipice of hell. Utterly terrifying feeling. I think LF has written her piece with a bit of immaturity and then totally overeacted to the complaints as if it was about her writing itself. In a few days she may sit back and realise what she said has (not 'might' have) caused people pain. At that point she might well put her hands up and say 'I messed up and had no idea what I was saying with that comparison'. Because I sincerely think what she did was out of immaturity and not malice (both the article and her wingeing about people who had lost children and complained).

I also agree with wheels and think that journalists just aren't used to having their pieces called out - they actually don't like right of reply so Twitter etc is a double edged sword. It allows instant publication (as it were) but also people can respond to their comments and articles. And directly.
It is unfair also to just "target" her on twitter: presumably the Guardian has an editor? who OK'd this? Liz must feel quite vulnerable and unsupported faced with a barrage of unhappy readers. I don't think her comments on twitter have done her any favours but I think she probably knows she fucked up and is on the back foot.
This could have been much simpler if she had done the decent thing and just said: I am so sorry, I didn't think about the impact it would have on bereaved parents. She hasn't come across as a very nice person, with a withering disregard for the intellect of people on Mumsnet. Who does she think actually READS the Guardian anyway??? waves!

sugar21

"@SarahPinborough I makes me sad that people are so angry and nasty. But yes. Have to just ignore, and carry on breathing."

It's like she's sticking her foot in her mouth constantly, on purpose now.

So sorry Sugar21 - your post made me cry.

xx

She's not a journalist.

It's self-indulgent wank.

Holy shit she's carrying on her insensitive posting this morning on Twitter, she hasn't learnt or considered this from anyone else's perspective at all!

X-posted with Multivac

It's a shame she doesn't have a good friend or a spouse who can tell her straight that she needs to stop now. I agree that a Twitter bunfight would gain little but a tweet from Mumsnet succinctly stating the reason for upset would have been supportive yesterday when this kicked off.

The original metaphor was crass and offensive; we can all be guilty of not thinking things through properly on occasion. The belittling of people and blocking bereaved parents and people who have respectfully asked for an apology or some reflection is a mark of character.

As a side issue, since when did any dissent become 'trolling?' Telling someone you are offended by what they have said/written, in a respectful, non-threatening way is NOT trolling. Arguing, disagreeing, protesting, yes, trolling? NO!

The only half-sincere apology was to a Mumsnet blogger who defended her before reading the article. The 'Death of a Salesman' tweet was extremely poor taste and incredibly condescending. I can't reconcile genuine regret for offending and upsetting people with this tweet.

I also agree a Twitter bunfight would be ill advised, but i would have hoped that there was some point in the middle between, silently not defending valued MNers and having an undignified argy bargy. But as you say above, that time has been and gone. Hindsight and all that.

As others have said, it's the responses that have made this so much worse.

I've just read her twitter page. I stand by the tattoo on forehead suggestion I made earlier.

She doesn't understand what trolling means.

To call someone a troll because they are deeply and understandably hurt is staggeringly wide of the mark.

In fact, it's troll-like.

Her twitter followers should know that her tweets are disingenuous at best; they are defending her based on her willful misinterpretation of why people are upset.
Not on.

since when did any dissent become 'trolling?' Telling someone you are offended by what they have said/written, in a respectful, non-threatening way is NOT trolling. Arguing, disagreeing, protesting, yes, trolling? NO!

Mm, well, I imagine if you believe that your kids growing up is a long, slow bereavement, refreshed everyday, then its kind of natural to think any disagreement is nasty abuse and trolling.

And you probably also think that forgetting your front door key is being a refugee, washed up in the mediterranean sea or that the shop failing to deliver your Quinoa is nothing less than genocide.

I would never normally use this phrase, but it seems to me to be the only explanation..... is she on glue?

Yes, Helmet, it must be another metaphor I'm too dumb to understand.

I agree MrsKoala, some defence of mumsnetters would have been nice.

She needs to get her head out of her navel.

She could instead liken her 'loss' of her children's early years to having a new person born of the 'old' child; but, no, it was all so wail-y wail-y horrifically awful and shit and inconvenient and she couldn't poo in peace yadda yadda...

Basically, she found the early years shit, finds the teenage years shit and talks shit.

@MrsKoala

I also agree a Twitter bunfight would be ill advised, but i would have hoped that there was some point in the middle between, silently not defending valued MNers and having an undignified argy bargy. But as you say above, that time has been and gone. Hindsight and all that.

As others have said, it's the responses that have made this so much worse.

I really do take criticisms of MN and Mumnetters as personally as anyone, but also think sometimes the absolute best strategy is to ignore. And in truth I care much more that people who actually use it generally find it valuable and supportive than about the opinions of those who don't.

No matter what you say now, Justine, MNetters felt very unsupported by MN yesterday when this was at its head. What you say strikes me as not wanting to stick your head above the parapet and say what you honestly think, which, I sincerely hope would be that you sympathise with the bereaved parents (of which I am one) and find Liz Fraser's article, but even more so, her response on Twitter, to be absolutely unacceptable. Really, really disappointed in MN today

I'm not really sure she understands why people are upset. The comments about people not grasping it's a metaphor are just so odd... Does she think people are taking it literally? Particularly as she's already acknowledged it was poorly worded... So why the comments about people not understanding metaphors? Suggests a lack of ability to see things from another's point of view. Or at least an unwillingness to do so.

for anyone who's been upset by this.

I think MN were very wise to not get involved in a twitter shit fest to be honest. Sometimes MN can get bit Contagion Theory esque

I am not convinced there are any benefits in sustaining this argument- am open to be persuaded otherwise

I mean what's to be gained by slagging her off even further? she clearly doesn't seem to give a fxxk and that says a lot about her

I think a calm, considered clarification of why people are offended would be in order, Stop, but Twitter's not the place for that. I think she's defensive to what she perceives as attacks, and she just isn't listening at the moment.

Maybe later she will be but Tweets are too short to put the point across.